Handley Page Victor B.1 and 2 differences

[ejboyd5]

On 1/4/2017 at 4:38 PM, ejboyd5 said:

Ever since receiving a book as a child in the early '50s (I believe it was Jet Aircraft of the World), I've been smitten by the H.P. 80 and its spectacular two-tone paint scheme replete with red cheat line.  Would retrofitting the B.2 kit to appear as the prototype be feasible or is there an alternative starting point that might be easier?

The book was The AIRCRAFT of the WORLD by Green & Pollinger.  Just learned that the 1/96 model by Lindberg is of the prototype Victor.  Model ordered and awaiting delivery.  Though I've only built in 1/72, 1/96 might be a better fit for something as large as the Victor and might spur me to build the 1/96 Lindberg Vulcan that has been waiting patiently on a shelf for many, many years. .

[Lord Riot]

I wish Airfix would bring out a B.1.

 

Is the Airfix K.2 due out soon? Still need to build my B.2 first! Is it a good kit?

[Sonoran]

Loads of online builds and reviews of the new Airfix Victor out there.

 

There is no way Airfix is going to do a B.1 or K.1.  It would be virtually a completely new kit.

[Adam Poultney]

On 28/12/2016 at 14:01, sloegin57 said:

 

Dave,

 

this may help.  Please also note that as well as leaving off the tanks, oil coolers and the "carrots", there was only one flow vane in each engine intake on the original B.Mk.2's, as shown in the photographs below.  The kit has two in each.  Im answer to your primary question as to the fin extension - No.  The original extension was there to provide cooling air for the Red Steer tail warning radar.  On the retrofitted aircraft, as depicted in the kit, the extension was enlarged to contain a glycol header tank for the ECM cooling system.

HTH

 

Dennis

I might be a few years late to this thread but this is probably the image I have been wanting to see the most for quite a while! XM714! Until today I didn't know of any existing pictures of the aircraft. Is this (bottom picture) definitely XM714?

[Adam Poultney]

On 28/12/2016 at 21:59, sloegin57 said:

OK.  With regards to the nose flaps/drooped leading edges, let me deal with just the B.Mk.2 series of aircraft, with only minor reference to earlier marks.

 

Victor B.Mk.2 production comprised the following serial number blocks :-

 

XH668 to XH675 (8 aircraft).  This batch of aircraft were originally to have been built as part of a batch of B.Mk1A's but the contract was changed to B.Mk.2 for the last 8 aircraft.  XH668 was originally known as "The Conway Victor" and first flew on the 20th February 1959.  The aircraft crashed into the Irish Sea the following August, following the detachment of the wing tip pitot heads causing the Mach trim strut to extend automatically pushing the elevators into the nose down position. The remaining aircraft in this batch were retained for various trials including Blue Steel trials in Australia prior to some of them being converted to full Blue Steel/Strategic Recce aircraft. 

 

XL158 to XL165 (8 aircraft)  Most of this batch were retained for various trials including Blue Steel.  XL160 was designated by HP's as the prototype B.Mk.3 with six Sapphire 9 engines, a wing span increased to 137ft and a fuselage length increased by 22ft.  In the end all came to naught and it was completed as a standard B.Mk.2.  Of this batch, XL163 entered service with 139Sqd as a standard B.Mk.2.  XL158 to XL165 were part of a production batch of 18 aircraft, the remainder being XL188 to XL193 (6 aircraft) and XL230 to XL233 (5 aircraft)

 

XL188 to XL193 (6 aircraft)  Most of this batch entered service with either the Intensive Flying Trials Unit ('C' Squadron 232 OCU) at Cottesmore (4 aircraft) or with Numbers 139 and 100 Sqdns at Wittering as original B.Mk.2's.

 

XL230 to XL233 (4 aircraft)  These aircraft entered service as B.Mk.2 aircraft with the IFTU (one aircraft) and with 139 Squadron (two aircraft).

 

XL511 to XL513 (3 aircraft)  It is believed that these aircraft had been originally allocated the serials XL250 to XL252 (as part of a batch XL250 to XL255) but were re-serialled.  Built as B.Mk.2 aircraft and used for various trials they only entered service after conversion to Blue Steel.

 

XM714 to XM718 (5 aircraft) Part of a block of thirty aircraft ordered with the last 25 aircraft being cancelled.  There is also some evidence from time-frames that the first 3 aircraft (XM714 to XM716) had been re-serialled from XL253 to XL255 but as they were almost complete at Radlett were brought into the order for thirty aircraft.  These aircraft were the first and only B.Mk.2's to have the drooped leading edge replacing the Nose Flaps.  Most entered service with 100 Squadron but one aircraft, XM716, entered service with 139 Squadron.

 

For completeness, the serials of the cancelled B.Mk.2's were as follows :- XM719 to XM721 (3 aircraft); XM745 to XM756 (12 aircraft) and XM785 to XM794 (10 aircraft).  It is believed that the last batch of serials would have been Recce versions (designation not known) equipped with the "Red Neck" SLAR pod slung under each wing.

 

Blue Steel and Strategic Recce

With the requirement for the Victor B.Mk.2 to carry the Blue Steel missile, HP's set up what they called a "Retrofit" line at Radlett.  Thirty aircraft would go through the line and emerge of which the first 21 aircraft would be Blue Steel carriers and the remaining nine aircraft would be Strategic Recce aircraft to replace the Valiants of Number 543 Squadron at Wyton.  The aircraft at Wittering would be replaced on a one-for-one basis.  

The first Blue Steel aircraft to arrive at Wittering was XL158 which was allocated to 139 Squadron.  It should be pointed out that, at the time, it was also known as a B.Mk.2 aircraft.  At Wittering and in order to differentiate between the two types of "B.Mk.2" on the base, the Blue Steel aircraft began to be referred to as B.Mk.2 Retrofit very quickly shortened to B.2R.  This was the designation that HP's used but was a completely unofficial one and never adopted by the RAF although it was quoted on internal paperwork on the base.

The decision to convert the last nine aircraft on the Retrofit line at Radlett to Strategic Recce aircraft was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction by the Air Ministry coming out of the potential problems with the Valiant which eventually resulted in its grounding and demise in late 1964.  Thus the Air Ministry had three types of Victor B.Mk.2 either in service or coming in to service and even they realised that new designations were required.  Thus in 1965, the Blue Steel aircraft became Victor B.Mk.2 (BS) and the Recce aircraft became Victor B/SR.Mk.2 aircraft.  

As well as the Blue Steel and aerodynamic modifications to the Retrofit aircraft, the engines were upgraded from Conway R.Co 11's to R.Co.17's given a much increase in thrust.  Oil coolers were added under the engine bays and under wing tanks were to be fitted as standard but due to a basic cock-up by HP's in positioning the bomb-slip that held the tanks to the wing, these were not re-introduced until around late 1965/early 1966 following re-design and incorporation by HP's and also at their expense.  It was found that with 28 Volts applied to the aircraft and especially in the rain, the tanks simply fell off. 

Two extra intake vanes were also added each side, one in each engine intake so to convert the kit back to a standard original B.Mk.2, four intake vanes will have to go but Ill answer that in a reply to Daves recent post (Oz has just woken up and I am assuming that it is tomorrow today over there.

An existing modification to the outer mainplanes of all Marks of Victor, the drooped leading edge, was also incorporated into the changes on the Retrofit aircraft something that they retained until the end of their lives as Tankers,

 

Sorry to bore you, you can wake up now

 

HTH (a bit )

 

Dennis 

 

Wow, that's a lot of information. You are an absolute hero for posting this. Am I right in thinking that the 714-718 batch didn't have the oil coolers until retrofitting then? I'd missed this detail until now.

[Ryan Lumb]

On 29/12/2016 at 00:27, sloegin57 said:

However :- The two trials aircraft out at Woomera, XH675 and XL161 were standard B.Mk.2 aircraft (pre-Rerofit) modified to carry and fire the missile.  Undersurface shot of XH675 attached :-

 

 

With regards to the intake vanes :-

 

OK - tomorrow has finally reached here on the east coast of Scotland and it's now 00:26hrs on Thursday.  I'm off to bed now - shopping tomorrow.  No doubt there will be more questions when I get back.

 

HTH

 

Dennis

Hi Denise I'm currently planning to do XH674 from this image https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/details-photo/raf-handley-page-hp-80-victor-flying-above-cloud-with-a-blue-steel-guided-bomb-under-fuselage/MEV-11956855 it shows that she has some crosses on the side of the bombbay. I was wondering do you think they would also be on the opposite side as well? Also the blue steel from the warpaint book shows it to be red and white that XH674 carried, so i assume that from the black and white photo it would be red and white as the warpaint book is showing it to be? Also do you think the crosses would be red or black? I cannot find any information about the photos other than XH674 was used for blue steel test trials from the warpaints brief description and drawing.

Thanks Ryan 

[John B (Sc)]

This has been a most fascinating topic to read through.  I am now wondering what to modify my remaining Matchbox Victor to - though maybe I shall build my Airfix one first.

 

One slightly off-topic question occurs to me, having looked at 'canberrakids' drawing of the fully bunged and tagged Victor. With so  many tags to remove, did the crew chiefs keep a  tally board to house them all, so they'd know they were all removed?  Seems to me the only way to be sure !