Folkbox1 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) I think I may have asked this question years ago but have never go a satisfactory answer. As a boy at primary school I was a big fan of the WW1 Biggles books. I would love to get the WNW Camel when it comes out and would love, even more, to do it as Biggles's of 266 Squadron. I did buy a WW1 Biggles book from Ebay (The Camels are coming appropriately) but no description of colours or markings were given. Do we have any ideas on the matter? From memory I believe 266 squadron was created towards the end of the war (or perhaps just after) but it never served on the Western Front. Edited December 13, 2016 by Folkbox1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 The history of the real 226 squadron gives this Formed at Pizzone on 1 April 1918 by renaming the Bombing School, it was divided into Nos 472, 473 and 474 Flights in September. Equipped with DH4s and a few Camels (474 Flt) it carried out coastal reconnaissance, anti-submarine patrols and bombing mission against Austrian targets. In June the DH4s were replaced by DH9 and in October the squadron moved to Lemnos, from where it carried out attacks on Turkish targets in the Aegean. It returned to Italy in November, disbanding on 18 December 1918. The 200 was added to RNAS squadron numbers on April 1st 1918. So in theory 226 came from RNAS 26 squadron [but it didn't, it was a new squadron] RNAS squadrons did not really carry squadron identifiers on their aeroplanes the way the RFC did. But personal markings were popular. An exception you could use as a basis was a flight of 10 Squadron RNAS who painted the fronts of their Sopwith Triplanes black and the pilot had a the letter of their surname on the fuselage sides and on a tail plane [eg Raymond Collishaw = C] At that stage in the war all Camels were PC10 topsides CDL undersides. Grey painted or plain aluminium metal cowling sides. You'll just have to read the stories again to see if there is a glimmer of a mention of colours or special markings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Perhaps this can be an inspiration? http://images.gr-assets.com/books/1212926026l/3408112.jpg Cheers, Andre Edited December 12, 2016 by Hook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 According to the RAF website 266 (Rhodesian) Squadron was formed in September 1918 and served as a seaplane squadron in Greece. I would say that the best bet for modelling Biggles camel would be to base it on one of the book covers although I would avoid the red cowl on the one pictured as it looks too much like Capt Roy Browns camel. I don't recall there ever being a description of special colours or markings in any of the biggles books so I would probably go with a relatively standard PC10 finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 ummm, Beardie old chap.... you've looked up 2 66, its 2 26 which the OP asked about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 OP mentions both 226 and 266 so I'm sure Beardie was just covering all the bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 so he does; my whoopsie apologies Beardie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 It's decades since I read "Biggles of the Camel Squadron" (which inspired me to buy my very first model, the Airfix Camel), so treat this with caution! But I seem to remember that, in the story where a German pilot drops a pair of boots through the roof of a hut belonging to a character whose name I can't remember, killing his pet goldfish, there's a small clue in the description of the ensuing dogfight. Biggles witnesses a Camel making a ferocious attack on a German aircraft, which is shot down, and assumes it's flown by Algy. Then "the victor zoomed high" (I definitely remember that bit) and Biggles recognised the number of Whatsisname's machine. Kind of implying that the Camels carried individual ID numbers. I can't remember which flight Biggles commanded, A, B or C but if the books say, you could assume that each flight would have had 6 aircraft and that as the leader Biggles' aircraft would have had the lowest number in his flight - so 1, 7 or 13. Nobody could prove you wrong! Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the books didn't specify whether Biggles' Camel was actually built by Sopwith or by a subcontractor such as Boulton Paul, which would have given some more clues about its finish...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Just check that it is the RFC Camel not (like the Airfix) the RNAS one. The photos I recall have letters for individual recognition and these were carried on the fuselage and top wing. However this is not my period: I don't know whether any unit used numbers but Johns generally knew what he was writing about. Perhaps someone better informed will offer more. If you really like Camels then I recommend Winged Victory by V M Yeates. Preferably a full edition rather than one of the abridged ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The original Kit Builder Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 During his time on Camels, Biggles served with 266, not 226. The fact that it was a squadron in the 200 range, would indicate that if it had been real, it would have been 66 sqn, RNAS until 1 Apr 1918. On the creation of the RAF, all former naval squadrons were incorporated into that service with the addition of 200 to the existing number. 266 as described in the Biggles books was entirely fictitious, though the events portrayed in the stories were, according to W E Johns, based on real events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 It has been a long time since I read Biggles so I have referred to trusty old Wikipedia where it gives a brief account of Biggles' WWI career. It gives him as having been with 169 squadron RFC flying the Feetoobee and then the Bristol F.2b and transferred to 266 squadron in late summer 1917 (This time is slightly prior to the RNAS squadrons being given the '2' prefix). So he was never with 226 squadron. I am guessing that W.E.Johns never intended us to look into the real existence of a squadron with the specified number and just picked a number out of the air which he reckoned was high enough that it wouldn't coincide with an actual fighter squadron operational during WWI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Feetoobee ???? Whats that then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Royal Aircraft Factory FE2B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I can recall only one definite mention of an individual aircraft number, and that's the serial, not a pilot's ID. Can't recall the number or which book it's in (of course). There's mention of Flight colours throughout the books, iirc. On my 'to do' list has always been the 'high altitude' Camel that Biggles has the mechanics construct to fight the German observation aircraft that keeps coming over in one book - he has the top wing extended by quite a bit. I'll have a dig, see if I can chase that serial number down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 11 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Just check that it is the RFC Camel not (like the Airfix) the RNAS one. The photos I recall have letters for individual recognition and these were carried on the fuselage and top wing. However this is not my period: I don't know whether any unit used numbers but Johns generally knew what he was writing about. Perhaps someone better informed will offer more. If you really like Camels then I recommend Winged Victory by V M Yeates. Preferably a full edition rather than one of the abridged ones. A quick dip into Les Rogers' "British Aviation Squadron Markings of World War 1" turns up photos of 46 Sqn and 54 Sqn Camels wearing numbers, for example, and a reference to 71 Sqn using letters for A and C Flights but numbers 1 - 6 for B Flight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 And on a similar note, I'd quite like to do Bart Bandy's Camel as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 12 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Royal Aircraft Factory FE2B. Thank you for us non aircraft chappies nicknames can be confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 6 hours ago, Rob G said: I'll have a dig, see if I can chase that serial number down. Hmm, I won't be able to do this. It seems that I've disposed of my Biggles collection at some point. Botheration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folkbox1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Thanks Chaps, I did of course mean 266 Squadron - as you can see my excellent proof reading got me a sub editor's job at the Grauniad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlindawg Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 You could try sitting through that '80s Biggles movie - adventures in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Gawd that was an awful awful awful movie. I recall being very chuffed when I heard a Biggles movie was in the offing but the resulting film was ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlindawg Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 10 minutes ago, Beardie said: Gawd that was an awful awful awful movie. If you can fly a Sopwith Camel, you can fly anything. Biggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folkbox1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Howlindawg said: You could try sitting through that '80s Biggles movie - adventures in time. I have the DVD but I don't think it's much help but I will dig it out and check (thanks for reminding me of the film - I had erased it from my memory) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlindawg Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Folkbox1 said: (I had erased it from my memory) Very sensible of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradleygolding Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) I've only read "Biggles In France" and I think the description of the Camels is fairly standard, with silver cowels. He writes off a couple in the first half of the book, so perhaps the question should be which of Biggles' Camels? Steve Edited December 14, 2016 by bradleygolding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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