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Bear Paw

Metal wire rigging

21 posts in this topic

Hello All, I recently saw a build on here that had used stiff metal wire rigging - 0.2mm I think?  I am not sure. Does this exist or did I make it up? If it does exist does anyone know where I can get it from?  

Thanks, Andrew.   

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I think stiff wire has been used for rigging and there has even been photoetched rigging including that produced by Tamiya for their 1/48 Fairey Swordfish. The problem is that it requires accuracy or it will have sag in it and holes drilled need to be at exactly the right angle in the model or you will have a noticeable bend and finally metal wire is susceptible to expansion and contraction with ambient temperature so, if temperature changes considerably it could stress it's attachment points or detach.

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Wire appears to be ok. I have used it on a few builds. The problem is with RAF flat rigging photo-etch. I singular bays or single wing aircraft it appears to be workable. Anything with realistic parts , like WNW kits , it will not work as the flexibility of the plastic is not in accord with the flexibility of the photo-etch.

Here's what you get:

IMG_4529.jpg

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Mmm… not good then.  I am using ezee line at the moment but don't want to drill through the wings to attach it.  I don't like the mess it makes on the other side of the wing.   I cut the line fill it and sand it but I want to avoid this.  What do others do ? 

 

Andrew. 

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All mine are drilled and threaded. I've just started trying a tip picked up from the forum mentioned above and only drilling part way through the lower wing, leaving only the top wing to be repaired. It works ok on injected kits but vacs are too thin so I'll stick with drilling right through both. 

 When I get around to some of the pushers in my stash I may have to rethink.....

 

Ian

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I use the stretchable thread (EZ line and Uschi brand), and I will drill a shallow  hole only deep enough so it holds a pool of superglue. 

 

The only time I will drill completely through the plastic is if the rigging continues on the opposite side, such as on the rudder and tail plane areas.  The benefit here is twofold: no need to glue, and dealing with less number of individual lines.  The fuselage area can be approached this way too.  To help thread through from one side to the other, I will insert a hollow brass rod permanently, sanding the ends flush with the exterior surface.   This of course, is not possible if it is the open cockpit area or if some interior detail is in the way.

 

---------------------------------------

 

These are all 1/72:

 

26981629662_4627e0f47b_c.jpg

 

23941328502_4b464b78a9_c.jpg

 

25160534446_55210f1af5_c.jpg

 

14268753865_562c6299c1_c.jpg

 

regards,

Jack

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For this 1/72 Hansa , .004" stainless steel wire sufficed:

finals0006_zpsn4nxpg0s.jpg

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Depends on what you are building. The Swordfish actually has metal bars which are about 1" * .3/4" oval on the long side.

 

I you are going to use metal then I would drill a hole in the top wing and let the metal rigging just sit there ie no glue.

Any slight sag will give a bent rigging metal line..

 

Albion Alloy do ranges of bars and tube in brass and aluminuim. Found that the brass is tougher

http://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/albion-alloys-metals.html.

 

For rigging I mostly use Crysta Line which is used by craft people making beads. It has a good stretches.

It is also available from .3mm up to 1mm in increments of .1. Does not fray which I found E/Z line easily does.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clear-Elastic-Crystal-Stretchy-Beading-Strong-Bead-Bracelet-Thread-Cord-String-/251615602972?var=&hash=item3a9575691c:m:mQGfhr-2CbQT3qgt5KnbgYw

 

Laurie

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Jack and Krow those builds are superb...... I do drill the holes through both wings at the moment but I will try the partial drilling. I would like to try the wire and so would like to know where you get the .004" wire from Krow?

 I am still trying to find a practical alternative to superglue due to my servere allergy so it does complicate the rigging process a lot.  Nothing else is as instant as super glue. 

I have resorted to very small wire eyelets that are particularly useful where you get a number of lines converging on one point but they still have to be connected at some point.  

I do thread through the fuselage too Jack but I  don't use brass tube - I thread a beading needle with the ezee line and feed that through the two holes in the fuselage.  I will give the brass tube idea a go.   

Laurie that Crysta line looks very good and cheap! I will try that, thanks.  

Thanks for the ideas everyone.  

 

Andrew. 

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1 hour ago, Bear Paw said:

Jack and Krow those builds are superb...... I do drill the holes through both wings at the moment but I will try the partial drilling. I would like to try the wire and so would like to know where you get the .004" wire from Krow?

 I am still trying to find a practical alternative to superglue due to my servere allergy so it does complicate the rigging process a lot.  Nothing else is as instant as super glue. 

I have resorted to very small wire eyelets that are particularly useful where you get a number of lines converging on one point but they still have to be connected at some point.  

I do thread through the fuselage too Jack but I  don't use brass tube - I thread a beading needle with the ezee line and feed that through the two holes in the fuselage.  I will give the brass tube idea a go.   

Laurie that Crysta line looks very good and cheap! I will try that, thanks.  

Thanks for the ideas everyone.  

 

Andrew. 

 

Andrew have you tired the odourless C/A.

These people are top experts on C/A they have C/A for almost every application.

http://www.cyberbond1.com/adhesives/cyanoacrylate-adhesives/

 

These are two oudourless types.

http://www.cyberbond1.com/product-detail/apollo/5008/

http://www.cyberbond1.com/product-detail/apollo/5100/

Still has some irritation properties but they may be at a low level which you may be tolerant to.

If it is skin irritation thin plastic surgical gloves are very good.

 

I know what it is like. When I went into BHS I started to itch. Acrylic material and Formaldehyde.

laced. Even Marks and Spencers cotton shirts I recently bought were laced with Formaldehyde

where as I do not have a reaction to cotton. The Formaldehyde is used to make the clothes look

smart but cannot be washed out

 

Cyberbond also give a number to speak to their experts which if you give your symptoms and they

may help you. They also market a pen with felt tip for priming one surface before glueing and works

miricles especially on difficult surfaces. Ensures a quick secure joint.

 

Laurie

 

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Another idea Andrew especially not being able to use C/A.

 

Providing there is enough room in the wing thickness. This is using tubing or rod.

Drill a hole as perfect fit as possible rod longer than distance between wings.

Slot rod into the top then drop down into the hole in the bottom wing.

 

If necessary you could turn the craft upside down and using PVA put as small

drop at each joint on the u/s of the top wing to secure.

 

Matter of interest I have noticed that the rigging on some aircraft actual feeds

through a hole in the wing which is larger than the rigging. The rigging must be

attached some how in the wing or at the u/s of the lower wing. That is the rigging

does not have to be filled at the wing junction just a nice neat joint.

 

Laurie

Edited by LaurieS
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01DB8734-BAB0-4A7D-9D57-570C4D22BC2C_zpsHi Laurie, thank you for your replies I have emailed cybernond to ask if they have any advice about my allergy I will be interested to see what they come up with.  

As for the the rod/tubing idea it sounds interesting but I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean and how it works?  I am a bit more visual… 

I too have noticed that rigging wires go into holes in the wing in some situations.  Here is a photograph of a Gladiator I took last week, I know it is a later aircraft but it does show the variety of types of rigging connections  as you suggest.  

Andrew. 

C847B0E7-D665-49A0-93D7-E956D8DFA162_zps

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Difficult Andrew to explain in words.

 

Drill your hole top and bottom wings the top one as deep as possible.

 

Take a piece of rod slightly more than the height between the wings.

 

Slot rod into top hole holding upwards as far as possible. (In this position the rod should be of such a length as to just sit on the lower wing)

 

Let the rod slip into the bottom hole. If the rod is such that it is a fraction to long then slightly tense the rod.

 

Providing the hole at the top is deep enough the rod should stay into position as the rod drops down into the lower wing hole.

 

Heck hope that makes sense Andrew.

 

Laurie

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Les Moore does all his rigged models with thin stainless steel wire that was originally intended as suture material for eye surgery. It was manufactured by Ethicon, a division of Johnson & Johnson, a large medical and pharmaceutical corporation here in the USA. I have no idea if the material is still readily available. Les recently posted a Japanese Laura on the RFI, maybe that's what you were thinking about?

 

though the wire works well for him, the few times I tried it I found it very difficult and tedious. I like using fine nylon monofilament fishing line superglued into blind holes (top wing) and through holes (bottom) wing. It is extremely easy to do, and it adds quite a bit of strength to the model. 

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.004" stainless steel wire from Detail Associates, its what I call a 'crossover' , from a model railroad supplier.

 It should be noted on the Hansa prior,  on the horizontal cross-wires between the floats the wire is secured at the rear with pva glue and is just layint on the front edge. This allows the resin kit to grow and shrink with the temperature and the wires dont bind. The same with the verticals between the wing struts , I did a 'lift up drop-in' scenario drilling two holes ,top & bottom, and cutting the wire to go up into the top hole and drop down into the bottom hole.

finals0012_zpstrhajavt.jpg

Edited by krow113
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There's a rigid surgical wire called Nitinol that's available from Small Parts on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013891DK/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

I use it sometimes for wires that are harder to do with the usual methods, especially cabana wires or short lengths to control horns. Depending where it's going drill a small indent at the connecting point and cut the wire to length and a small blob of white glue on either end. No stinky CA fumes. I did once rig a whole plane with it, not my favourite method but definitely doable. 

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6 hours ago, LaurieS said:

Difficult Andrew to explain in words.

 

Drill your hole top and bottom wings the top one as deep as possible.

 

Take a piece of rod slightly more than the height between the wings.

 

Slot rod into top hole holding upwards as far as possible. (In this position the rod should be of such a length as to just sit on the lower wing)

 

Let the rod slip into the bottom hole. If the rod is such that it is a fraction to long then slightly tense the rod.

 

Providing the hole at the top is deep enough the rod should stay into position as the rod drops down into the lower wing hole.

 

Heck hope that makes sense Andrew.

 

Laurie

 

Ok got it Laurie - that makes sense to me now I just need the hardware to try it out.  Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, krow113 said:

.004" stainless steel wire from Detail Associates, its what I call a 'crossover' , from a model railroad supplier.

 It should be noted on the Hansa prior,  on the horizontal cross-wires between the floats the wire is secured at the rear with pva glue and is just layint on the front edge. This allows the resin kit to grow and shrink with the temperature and the wires dont bind. The same with the verticals between the wing struts , I did a 'lift up drop-in' scenario drilling two holes ,top & bottom, and cutting the wire to go up into the top hole and drop down into the bottom hole.

finals0012_zpstrhajavt.jpg

 

Thanks Krow, I had a look at the web site and found it, I will see if I can get it in the UK. 

 

Andrew. 

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I have a line of micro wire. One hundred feet of your choice of size and type for $3.50 USD including shipping worldwide.  Choose from hard .002 inch diameter stainless, hard .003 stainless, half hard .004 stainless, hard .004 brass,half hard .005 steel, soft .006 copper, and hard .010 brass.  PayPal accepted at berman4@netzero.com.  Questions answered at berman4@netzero.com

                                                                                                                                           Barry

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Ok Barry, sounds good.  I will be in touch.  

 

Andrew. 

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