Lancaster Mk.II with ventral turret

[Simon]

Hello everyone

 

I'm doing some research on a particular 514 Sqn Lancaster Mk.II, LL716 JI-G2, and it's mentioned in the Bomber Command Losses, 1944 edition, that it carried an extra crewman as the mid-under gunner. So, a bit of Googling later, I came across this photo of 514 Sqn's LL734, showing a mid-under turret:

 

http://www.iwm.org.uk_www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205127135

 

There's a 'zoomable' version here.

 

I'm assuming LL716 would have a similar turret. It doesn't seem to be the same shape as the one Airfix have included in their Lancaster II (an F.N.64?), and it seems to have a single gun. So, what is this turret exactly?

 

REgards

 

Simon

[Radleigh]

Can't help on the turret, but that zoomable image... Them engine cowlings have some form of writing on them? Like artwork or something.

[Simon]

Yes, I noticed that when I zoomed in. Looks like they have names written on them?

 

Simon

[Junchan]

Early Mk. I and II had an FN 64 ventral turret with two 0.303 guns as included in the Airfix B. II kit. As you noticed, a single 0.5 Browning gun was mounted on the fuselage floor instead of FN 64 on certain aircraft.

You may find this Mission4Today's thread would be helpful.

http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=ForumsPro&file=viewtopic&p=94606

 

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

[Simon]

Thanks for the link Jun, it was indeed helpful. It seems to be the field-modified mount on the photo of LL734 - what looks like a turret in the photo is in fact the wind-blast deflector shown in the drawings.

 

Regards

 

Simon

[Graham Boak]

The rear turret looks as though it may be the rare Rose twin 0.50, as only a single gun is visible.  I don't know of any example of this turret for a kit.

[Mancunian airman]

16 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

The rear turret looks as though it may be the rare Rose twin 0.50, as only a single gun is visible.  I don't know of any example of this turret for a kit.

 

If you are talking about the gorgeous MkII photo, I can actually see the two starboard barrels projected upwards whereas the post side are in-line giving the appearance of one . . . 

[Howard Moon]

17 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

The rear turret looks as though it may be the rare Rose twin 0.50, as only a single gun is visible.  I don't know of any example of this turret for a kit.

I think it might be the angle the photo was taken from. Sure I can see two barrels on the starboard side when I zoom in. Wasn't the Rose-Rice turret a bit more bulbous.

[Troy Smith]

if you go'Share and reuse'  there is an BB embed code,  which is easy to copy and paste

 

AIRCRAFT OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE 1939-1945: AVRO 683 LANCASTER.. © IWM (CL 561)IWM Non Commercial Licence

 

Not the same squadron, but maybe of use,  I posted this a while back

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234943053-wartime-colour-footage-of-lancaster-mk-ii/

 

Quote

Looking for some Lancaster info, and ran across this.

Film of Lancaster Mk II, in colour taking off a flying and landing.

The footage is great. Commentary is nothing special , actually it was annoying me, but I listened to see if said anything about this film, or the planes shown. If it annoys you, kill the sound, as if you know enough to care this shows a Lancaster MkII then you'll probably know what the commentary is telling you already.

Does not even mention these are Lancaster MkII's !

Not seen a mention of this on here, maybe old news, but figured worth mentioning in light of the new Airfix kit.

I'm not aboutto try to search up the Sq, but the first plane looks to be EQ-B, [at 00.05] and the 2nd plane looks to be OW-Q,[?] at about 00.09, better seen at 02.13

This plane seems to have slightly enlarged white areas on the fuselage roundel and tail flash. Though might be be a film 'effect'?

 

Also, while the Mk II Lanc never struck me as that odd in photos, seeing it flying is, well, a bit weird. I think as I have seen film of Lancaster before, and film of Halifax with radial engines and Stirlings, but in motions I see Stirling/Halifax and then lancaster and it's well, odd. Might be just me. 

 

on the tail turret, at 0:08 the turret looks odd, well, different to the usual one.

there is a thread here on various Lanc tail turrets which may help if you are  a member

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/lancaster-turret.4834/

 

also

http://sas.raf38group.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1234

 

which has this which is new to me at least

Quote

Here's a screen grab from the 'Night Bombers' DVD showing a Rose turret being fitted.

 

I've not run across the Night Bombers DVD,  is there more info on this plane? (squadron, markings)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nightbombers-DVD-H-I-Cozens/dp/B0001GNJK6

 

Quote

This is all orginal colour film taken mostly at RAF Hemswell, Lincolnshire in 1944, home of 150 and 170 Squadrons flying Lancasters.

 

 

Quote

The wartime colour film of Lancasters used in in this now re-mastered DVD is the only known to exist. It was de-classified under the "Thirty Year's Rule" in 1978 and so was not available for use in earlier documentary programmes such as "The World At War". Since release, parts of the film have appeared in other Video/DVD's and used on TV. For example, footage was shown by BBC TV last December in their "RAF at 90" programme.

Viewed as a whole, the film reflects a full day of activity at a front line RAF Bomber Base. It shows ground crew changing a Merlin engine, replacement of a rear turret with twin 0.50 inch machine guns rather than four 0.303 inch guns and then the fuelling and bombing up of aircraft. Bombs of various sizes are shown being manhandled on to trolleys then moved by tractor from the bomb dump to have fuses attached before being taken to aircraft and winched up into the bomb bay. Aircrew are shown being fully briefed and getting into flying gear prior to taking off "for a mission to Berlin". The latter section appears "staged" but still reveals what it was like to be in a Lancaster and the near impossibility of getting out if an aircraft was hit by shell or cannon fire from anti aircraft guns or night fighters.

The quality of the footage is astonishing given that the bulk was filmed using a 16mm camera. The interior shots of a fully operational Lancaster (and perhaps the reason for the ban on release until 1978) show the use of all the electronics that became available later in the war for navigation and early warning of night fighter attack.

The commentary is informative and the DVD also has some wonderful extra's that highlight the life of the late Air Commodore H I Cozens who made the film at his own initiative in 1944. In doing so, a moment of history was preserved for those involved and for future generations.
 

 

HTH

T

Edited December 7, 2016 by Troy Smith
corrections