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    • Mike

      PhotoBucket are no longer permitting 3rd party hosting   01/07/17

      As most of you are now painfully aware, Photobucket (PB) are stopping/have stopped allowing their members to link their accumulated years of photos into forums and the like, which they call 3rd party linking.  You can give them a non-refundable $399 a year to allow links, but I doubt that many will be rushing to take them up on that offer.  If you've previously paid them for the Pro account, it looks like you've got until your renewal to find another place to host your files, but you too will be subject to this ban unless you fork over a lot of cash.   PB seem to be making a concerted move to another type of customer, having been the butt of much displeasure over the years of a constantly worsening user interface, sloth and advertising pop-ups, with the result that they clearly don't give a hoot about the free members anymore.  If you don't have web space included in your internet package, you need to start looking for another photo host, but choose carefully, as some may follow suit and ditch their "free" members at some point.  The lesson there is keep local backups on your hard drive of everything you upload, so you can walk away if the same thing happens.   There's a thread on the subject here, so please use that to curse them, look for solutions or generall grouse about their mental capacity.   Not a nice situation for the forum users that hosted all their photos there, and there will now be a host of useless threads that relied heavily on photos from PB, but as there's not much we can do other than petition for a more equitable solution, I suggest we make the best of what we have and move on.  One thing is for certain.  It won't win them any friends, but they may not care at this point.    Mike.
Pappy

Nakajima B5N2 Kate question

G'day people,

 

I am approaching the end of my 1/72 Airfix Kate build and I have a couple of questions.

 

1. What is the aerial fitment pattern?

There is an aerial mast exiting the canopy, so it seems obvious that that there will be an aerial fitted between this mast and the vertical fin leading edge. I have seen some models and paintings with additional aerials (HF?)  that appear between wing trailing edge and the tail plane leading edge symmetrically on both sides. Does anyone have a clear drawing or rigging diagram?

 

2. Did the Kate have navigation lights fitted above/below the wing surfaces?

 

Airfix have moulded teardrop shaped features both above and below the wing additional to the normal wingtip nav lights. There are two of these on the wing upper surfaces, one per inboard and outboard (folding) section of the main wing and four grouped together on the underside.

 

DSCN3571_zpsxqvsqx3m.jpg

 

DSCN3538_zpsqosnjrgs.jpg

 

I suspect that these are some sort of formation or identification lights? Should these be painted in the usual red/green or left clear?

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

 

 

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Hi Pappy. I posted the same reply to the thread you started at ARC. Not sure which forum you're watching more closely.

 

FWIW, the Hasegawa instructions for their 1:48 B5N2 kit show the two inboard lights on each upper wing as the same colors as the wingtip nav lights -- that is, clear red for port and clear blue for starboard (although it seems obvious these were actually green lights with that bluish tinge one sees on traffic lights). There's no mention in the instructions of anything on the lower wing surfaces.

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The starboard lenses were blue because because the bulbs that the Japanese were using gave off yellow light. Yellow light + blue lens= green at night. The Zero also has the two upper inboard lights on each wing. On all the models that I have seen,

the lights are the same colour as the wing tip. As I am building a J2M Raiden, I have been looking at a lot of photos and some have the lights and some do not. I have no idea what the policy was.

 

Garry c

 

 

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2 hours ago, Garry c said:

The starboard lenses were blue because because the bulbs that the Japanese were using gave off yellow light. Yellow light + blue lens= green at night. The Zero also has the two upper inboard lights on each wing. On all the models that I have seen,

the lights are the same colour as the wing tip. As I am building a J2M Raiden, I have been looking at a lot of photos and some have the lights and some do not. I have no idea what the policy was.

 

Garry c

 

 

Good to know that about the blue lenses, thanks.

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Aerial wire is simply from antenna post to fin. The aerials each side of the fuselage are for the later surface radar equipped Kates. 

 

Nick

 

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21 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Hi Pappy. I posted the same reply to the thread you started at ARC. Not sure which forum you're watching more closely.

 

FWIW, the Hasegawa instructions for their 1:48 B5N2 kit show the two inboard lights on each upper wing as the same colors as the wingtip nav lights -- that is, clear red for port and clear blue for starboard (although it seems obvious these were actually green lights with that bluish tinge one sees on traffic lights). There's no mention in the instructions of anything on the lower wing surfaces.

 

G'day SW, I saw your reply over at ARC. I have a 1/48 Hasegawa B5N2 as well, and I saw the same thing. The Airfix painting instructions also point out the red upper wing lights on the left wing but not the ones on the right wing - possibly because the upper wing camouflage contains green elements?

 

 

19 hours ago, Garry c said:

The starboard lenses were blue because because the bulbs that the Japanese were using gave off yellow light. Yellow light + blue lens= green at night. The Zero also has the two upper inboard lights on each wing. On all the models that I have seen,

the lights are the same colour as the wing tip. As I am building a J2M Raiden, I have been looking at a lot of photos and some have the lights and some do not. I have no idea what the policy was.

 

Garry c

 

 

 

Thanks Garry

 

10 hours ago, Nick Millman said:

Aerial wire is simply from antenna post to fin. The aerials each side of the fuselage are for the later surface radar equipped Kates. 

 

Nick

 

 

G'day Nick, always a pleasure to have your contribution. That has simplified things very nicely,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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According to my Maru Mechanic vol. 47, which features the B5N-1/2 Kates, both the inboard and outboard position lights on t\he wing upper surfaces are the same color as the corresponding navigation wingtip lights- red to port and blue/green to starboard. There are no position lights shown on the bottom of the wings, either in the plan view drawings or in the diagram that shows all of the exterior and interior lights. I think you would  need to remove the molded-on teardrop-shaped lights on the bottom of both wings to be accurate. Hope this helps!

 

Mike

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The lower teardrop-shaped objects are inboard, beneath the fuel tanks- maybe fairings for fuel drains ?

 

Another mystery :hmmm:

 

Garry c

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4 hours ago, 72modeler said:

According to my Maru Mechanic vol. 47, which features the B5N-1/2 Kates, both the inboard and outboard position lights on t\he wing upper surfaces are the same color as the corresponding navigation wingtip lights- red to port and blue/green to starboard. There are no position lights shown on the bottom of the wings, either in the plan view drawings or in the diagram that shows all of the exterior and interior lights. I think you would  need to remove the molded-on teardrop-shaped lights on the bottom of both wings to be accurate. Hope this helps!

 

Mike

 

G'day Mike, thanks very much for that. I have heard of the Maru Mechanic series but have never seen one myself. I assume these only have Japanese text? Are the pictures self  explanatory enough that you can get by without English captions? I would be interested in buying a few volumes but I am afraid that large expanses of information will be unreadable (by me) and hence I have avoided buying them sight unseen,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

 

3 hours ago, Garry c said:

The lower teardrop-shaped objects are inboard, beneath the fuel tanks- maybe fairings for fuel drains ?

 

Another mystery :hmmm:

 

Garry c

 

G'day Garry,

 

That could be a possibility, but I will just leave them alone,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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Pappy,

 

The Maru Mechanics monographs are an old, out-of-print series, mainly on IJA/IJN aircraft, but they are still excellent references. Some volumes cover one aircraft and some cover two, and you can find used copies on various auction and book-selling sites for fairly reasonable prices. I have about 12-15 volumes, mainly for references on Japanese aircraft, as back in the day (I'm God's older brother!) they were just about the only game in town. The text is all in Japanese, but there are excellent scale drawings, as well as black and white and color drawings and diagrams that show internal and external structures. Each book is broken down into sections- powerplant, cockpit, landing gear, control surfaces, armament, canopies, etc. with drawings and photos. Despite being in Japanese, they are still very useful for modeling, and I think you would find them very helpful for aircraft  that are thin on the ground reference-wise. When I get a chance to get to my archives, I'll post a list of the ones I have to give you an idea of what's out there- sorry I don't have a comprehensive list of the titles printed- maybe one of our  resident experts can help?

 

On the fairings molded on the underside of the wings of the kit, none of the drawings or diagrams in my Maru Mechanic show anything like a formation light or fuel drain there; I would think a fuel drain would be located either  beneath a panel or small door that is opened to expose the drain, or would be in the form of a tube or small pipe that vents aft, like the ones on the wings of a Ki-27 Nate. I'm spitting in the wind on that issue, mate!

 

Mike

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4 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Pappy,

 

The Maru Mechanics monographs are an old, out-of-print series, mainly on IJA/IJN aircraft, but they are still excellent references. Some volumes cover one aircraft and some cover two, and you can find used copies on various auction and book-selling sites for fairly reasonable prices. I have about 12-15 volumes, mainly for references on Japanese aircraft, as back in the day (I'm God's older brother!) they were just about the only game in town. The text is all in Japanese, but there are excellent scale drawings, as well as black and white and color drawings and diagrams that show internal and external structures. Each book is broken down into sections- powerplant, cockpit, landing gear, control surfaces, armament, canopies, etc. with drawings and photos. Despite being in Japanese, they are still very useful for modeling, and I think you would find them very helpful for aircraft  that are thin on the ground reference-wise. When I get a chance to get to my archives, I'll post a list of the ones I have to give you an idea of what's out there- sorry I don't have a comprehensive list of the titles printed- maybe one of our  resident experts can help?

 

On the fairings molded on the underside of the wings of the kit, none of the drawings or diagrams in my Maru Mechanic show anything like a formation light or fuel drain there; I would think a fuel drain would be located either  beneath a panel or small door that is opened to expose the drain, or would be in the form of a tube or small pipe that vents aft, like the ones on the wings of a Ki-27 Nate. I'm spitting in the wind on that issue, mate!

 

Mike

 

G'day Mike,

 

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. If there is one aircraft that I would lie a reference for it would be the E14Y "Glenn", as I would like to build one of these. These were carried aboard someJapanesesubs for recce work. I would like to depict the aircraft carried aboard the sub (I-25) which carried out a recce flight over Sydney Harbour just prior to the (midget) submarine attack.

 

As for the teardrop features, maybe Airfix just made a mistake, they would not be the first. In any case, I am going to leave them alone.

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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Mushroom Model Publications (MMP) did an outstanding reference book on the Glen in 2013- I have it, and it's a great modeler's reference work! Kugisho E14Y Glen- the Aircraft that Bombed America, in their White Series, in paperback form, Great scale drawings, interior details, ands color 3-views and profiles of all versions.

 

I took a good look at the underside  plan view drawings of the Kate in my Maru Mechanic just now, and it appears that according to the drawings, there are two fuel tanks located in the inboard part of each each wing, basically aft of the landing gear bays. There appears to be a small circular panel/opening depicted in the aft  inboard corner of each of the tanks, which I am surmising is the fuel drain for each wing tank. There are no fuel tanks located in the outboard part of either wing, so if that is where those molded-on teardrops blisters are on the kit, they can't be fuel drains, as there are no fuel tanks there.

 

The Maru  Mechanics I have are listed below, but I don't have a list of all that were printed- sorry! At least you can see some to look for.

 

v29  Ki-21 Sally            v36  E7K Alf                                                v44  Ki-44 Tojo and Ki-45 Nick              v49  A5M2 Claude and Ki-27 Nate

v31  DC-3/L2D             v38  F4U-1D                                                v45  Ki-61 Tony and Ki-100                   v50  Fw-190 and Bf-109

v32  Ki-67 Peggy         v40  F6F                                                       v46  P1Y1 Frances and G4M Betty      ???  D4Y2 Judy and D3A2 Val

v35  Ki-51 Sonia          v43  J2M-1/3 Jack and N1K1J George        v47  B5N-1/2 Kate and B6N Jill

 

BTW Pappy, the flaps, as depicted on the kit as being fabric-covered, are incorrect- they were metal-covered on the real airplane, as shown in all of the drawings and text references I have seen, and which was discussed in an earlier posted topic. IIRC, one of the flap sections on the kit is correctly molded with no fabric texture! Go figure!

 

Crikey, mate!

 

Mike

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On 08/12/2016 at 7:24 AM, 72modeler said:

Mushroom Model Publications (MMP) did an outstanding reference book on the Glen in 2013- I have it, and it's a great modeler's reference work! Kugisho E14Y Glen- the Aircraft that Bombed America, in their White Series, in paperback form, Great scale drawings, interior details, ands color 3-views and profiles of all versions.

 

I took a good look at the underside  plan view drawings of the Kate in my Maru Mechanic just now, and it appears that according to the drawings, there are two fuel tanks located in the inboard part of each each wing, basically aft of the landing gear bays. There appears to be a small circular panel/opening depicted in the aft  inboard corner of each of the tanks, which I am surmising is the fuel drain for each wing tank. There are no fuel tanks located in the outboard part of either wing, so if that is where those molded-on teardrops blisters are on the kit, they can't be fuel drains, as there are no fuel tanks there.

 

The Maru  Mechanics I have are listed below, but I don't have a list of all that were printed- sorry! At least you can see some to look for.

 

v29  Ki-21 Sally            v36  E7K Alf                                                v44  Ki-44 Tojo and Ki-45 Nick              v49  A5M2 Claude and Ki-27 Nate

v31  DC-3/L2D             v38  F4U-1D                                                v45  Ki-61 Tony and Ki-100                   v50  Fw-190 and Bf-109

v32  Ki-67 Peggy         v40  F6F                                                       v46  P1Y1 Frances and G4M Betty      ???  D4Y2 Judy and D3A2 Val

v35  Ki-51 Sonia          v43  J2M-1/3 Jack and N1K1J George        v47  B5N-1/2 Kate and B6N Jill

 

BTW Pappy, the flaps, as depicted on the kit as being fabric-covered, are incorrect- they were metal-covered on the real airplane, as shown in all of the drawings and text references I have seen, and which was discussed in an earlier posted topic. IIRC, one of the flap sections on the kit is correctly molded with no fabric texture! Go figure!

 

Crikey, mate!

 

Mike

 

G'day cobber,

 

Great answer and thanks for the listing. I will have a captain's for the MMP but this will probably have sold out by now (all the MMP titles I want usually do!) as well as the Maru Mechanic series. V46/47 look to be the ones I want most.

 

The square panels on the kit underside are likely access panels for the fuel tanks as you say. The teardrop features are all located on a fuel tank panel, at the aft inboard corner of each

 

DSCN3601_zpsflk0b5do.jpg

 

So it would appear that these teardrops represent the fuel tank drains?

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

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You're welcome, P!

 

On the plan view drawings of the underside of the Kate, there are no teardrop shaped fairings/blisters/shapes depicted, but there is a circular panel on each wing tank access bay- I can see them right behind the teardrop shaped fairings in the photo you posted above. Since it looks like the fairings molded on the kit above and below each wing are the same shape and size, and since we know the upper ones are position/running lights, I am guessing the lower ones are not fuel drains, but are intended to depict running  lights, which it doesn't look like Kates had, from the references I have. I got up to my attic (loft to you non-Yankees!)today, and pulled out my two Hasegawa B5N2 kits- they show the two upper wing teardrop-shaped running lights like Airfix, but underneath they just show the small circular panels at the inboard corner of each fuel tank bay.  Long story short, Pappy- it's your call! I'm not going to rat you out, that's for sure! BTW, your build is coming along nicely! I have the new Airfix B5N2 kit, but other than seeing the flaps represented as being fabric covered,  I really haven't gone over it with my dreaded Mk1a eyeball, as it's not one I'm planning to do right now. The Hasegawa kit also agrees with the Maru Mechanic drawings in depicting the flaps as being metal, not fabric covered. The weird thing I saw on the Airfix kit, IIRC, was that one upper inboard flap section was smooth and the other three had fabric sagging on the upper and lower surface...the moldmaker got a bad batch of vegemite, maybe?

 

 

Mike 

 

P.S. Is being a cobber a good thing or a bad thing- I'm just askin'!

 

 

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37 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

P.S. Is being a cobber a good thing or a bad thing- I'm just askin'!

 

 

Ahhh.... the English language..... whereas "mate" can be said with a sneer and can be very pejorative, in my experience "cobber", while largely outdated amongst city people, has only good connotations, so read it as "friend".

 

PS - lots of useful info on the Kate here - it has sent mine up the build list!

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There is currently a Kate being restored, perhaps the people at J-aircraft.com have better information about the mysterious teardrops, although I hate to ruin perfectly good speculation with pesky facts.

Pappy, your paint work is fabulous, especially the upper surface cammo.

 

Garry c

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I'm going to have to fall on my sword- With apologies to Pappy and Nick!

 

I have been obsessed with the wing flaps as depicted on the new-tool Airfix kit, and I did a search of Kate-related posts on the J-aircraft website yesterday. I did find a post regarding observations of Kates that were shot down during the Pearl Harbor attack, and there was one that described the primer colors on one  of the wings that were recovered. The written report that was quoted in the post stated that the flaps were fabric-covered metal framed structures...mystery solved! So, Airfix got the flaps right it seems, with the exception of the one inner flap section that has no fabric sagging. The comments I made regarding this subject  on  aother Kate discussion topic were not correct,, and I wanted to set the record straight. Sorry, my mistake, mea culpa, que lastima,and so on!

 

My thinking is I will reduce the slightly overscale ribbing on the three flap sections of my Airfix Kate and add some to the one inner flap section that was molded without any when I get around to the kit as well as adding and correcting the cockpit details posted by Nick Millman earlier- BTW, thanks, Nick, for your expertise!

 

This just in- I found an excellent photo in my Famous Aircraft of the World v32 on the B5N-1/2 that shows a complete wing flap assembly without its covering, and it is clearly a metal framed, fabric-covered assembly!  

Humbly yours,

 

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
new information added
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Since we are speculating on those small tear drop bulges on the undersides at the tank locations...my first thought was fuel pumps being underneath them, or as a low spot during level flight to ensure every bit of fuel is usable. 

 

Obviously someone on J-aircraft with access to the B5N being restored would have the answer. 

 

Tim

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Time to revive this thread! I'm about to start my Airfix Kate and have a few questions which I'm hoping one of you informed lot can help me answer! I plan to pose my Kate with the wings folded and the cockpit open, so...

 

1. Will the exposed wing joins be the same metallic blue as the wheel wells as in Pappy's build or just plain old aluminium colour?

2. Would a Kate with it's wings folded likely have the cockpit canopy open? I can't see why not... What's the opinions?

3. Does Humbrol 30 sound right for the top camo of a Kate as Airfix suggest? I'm was planning to use Tamiya's XF-11 JN Green which looks different to Humbrol 30 but Tamiya are usually spot on for Japanese colours.

4. Green or metallic blue cockpit?

 

Thanks all! JB

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Let's see how well I know my IJN modeling specs...

 

1.  Aotake, which is not so much a metallic blue, but blue-green (or green-blue) transparent anti-corrosion paint that binds to the bare aluminum. Can vary in color, but as I understand starts more green and the ages to a more blue shade. 

 

2. Not really. Unless the maintenance or aircrew are accessing the cockpit. 

 

3. IMO H30 is too light. I prefer a darker, and bluer green. I used Tamiya XF-11 on mine. 

 

4. Green. 

 

My build here.

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Pappy,

 

Nothing to add re: the lights and whatnot, but as to aerials, I started a thread over at J-Aircraft re: radio leads.  You should check it out in the 'General' category.  For the early Kates there were leads from the horizontal tails to a point just outside of the wing fold, with a connecting fuselage lead halfway between wing and tail to mid-fuselage, a diagram of which was posted by THE expert Jim Lansdale.  For the later Kates with a canopy post, two leads went from vertical tail, one to the post, and from the same point to an insulator aft of the rear cockpit, about half-way to the tail.  One of the photos posted faintly shows that.

Hope this helps you....

 

Ciao!

Edited by expositor

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13 hours ago, Greenshirt said:

Let's see how well I know my IJN modeling specs...

 

1.  Aotake, which is not so much a metallic blue, but blue-green (or green-blue) transparent anti-corrosion paint that binds to the bare aluminum. Can vary in color, but as I understand starts more green and the ages to a more blue shade. 

 

2. Not really. Unless the maintenance or aircrew are accessing the cockpit. 

 

3. IMO H30 is too light. I prefer a darker, and bluer green. I used Tamiya XF-11 on mine. 

 

4. Green. 

 

My build here.

Thanks, build looks very impressive. Well done.

 

with reference to the information on 1, thank you. What about the alloy where the wings have folded? Should this be Aotake as well or bare alluminium?

 

JB

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1 hour ago, Victory-is-in-the-Kitchen said:

What about the alloy where the wings have folded? Should this be Aotake as well or bare alluminium?

Naval aircraft typically don't have any bare aluminum.  It will corrode too quickly.  There are exceptions, like USN aircraft in the 50's, but the USN very quickly realized the bare metal needed to be protected.  

 

So I would paint it some variation of Aotake.  

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44 minutes ago, Greenshirt said:

Naval aircraft typically don't have any bare aluminum.  It will corrode too quickly.  There are exceptions, like USN aircraft in the 50's, but the USN very quickly realized the bare metal needed to be protected.  

 

So I would paint it some variation of Aotake.  

Thanks, makes perfect sense. Time to fire up the modelling bench!!

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