FalkeEins Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 On 11/30/2016 at 6:45 PM, Duncan B said: ...so I can't get bogged down with the never ending spiral of research and detail chasing well, that worked well then ! thread bookmarked for my Hellcat build! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 8 hours ago, FalkeEins said: well, that worked well then ! thread bookmarked for my Hellcat build! Oh, and another question........aaaargh! I was going to ask about navigation lights, headrest colour, why those stupid little windows are there when they are behind a solid bulkhead and what the pilots had for breakfast but I sense there might be a bit of Mission Creep kicking in! Honestly, I'm just curious, these questions aren't slowing the build down at all...much. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 13 hours ago, SovereignHobbies said: Underside colour behind the hinge perhaps: But in front looks to be Grumman Gray inside. Grumman Gray with white overspray not inconceivable! Has 66 only got the bomb pylon under the left hand wing in this photo or is the right hand one masked by that big, fat engine? Just curious! Oh look, brake lines down the undercarriage legs, they wouldn't take any time at all to add. To keep in with the 'quick build' philosophy I will go with the underside colour for the hinge area and will not fret about it for days on end. DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Huh. I never noticed that! I think you can maybe see the yoke of another one from behind that port lower cowl flap, but I'm not sure! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Just now, SovereignHobbies said: Huh. I never noticed that! I think you can maybe see the yoke of another one from behind that port lower cowl flap, but I'm not sure! I think I can see the sway brace/yoke thingy too. While you are here, tell me is the white in the USN Star n Bar the same as the underside white (I bet you are going to say 'No')? This is all your fault anyway Jamie! (charming?) DB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Hah! You're mistaken. It's the same white underneath and on the insignias. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenshirt Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Duncan B said: Has 66 only got the bomb pylon under the right hand wing in this photo or is the left hand one masked by that big, fat engine? Just curious! Oh look, brake lines down the undercarriage legs, they wouldn't take any time at all to add. To keep in with the 'quick build' philosophy I will go with the underside colour for the hinge area and will not fret about it for days on end. DB It looks like the left shoe of the "final checker" who is leaning on the tailplane. If you look at the aircraft just behind and to the right (from pilot's perspective) of 66, it does not have a bomb on the right pylon. So I'm thinking only a single bomb per aircraft due to target distance? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Hmm it might be a shoe right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Greenshirt said: It looks like the left shoe of the "final checker" who is leaning on the tailplane. If you look at the aircraft just behind and to the right (from pilot's perspective) of 66, it does not have a bomb on the right pylon. So I'm thinking only a single bomb per aircraft due to target distance? Sorry, got my lefts and rights mixed up (I'm dyscalculic so that does happen from time to time, I know which is which but will point left and say right for example). Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) Quote from F6F Hellcat Walkround: “the F6F-3 carried only one bomb rack, located on the starboard stub wing” (my emphasis). F6F-5s later had them on both sides, certainly by Bu No 72230. Edited December 14, 2016 by Seahawk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 23 minutes ago, Seahawk said: Quote from F6F Hellcat Walkround: “the F6F-3 carried only one bomb rack, located on the starboard stub wing” (my emphasis). F6F-5s later had them on both sides, certainly by Bu No 72230. Jings, I never knew that, but then again I did say earlier that I knew nothing about the Hellcat anyway. Thanks for this info, I'll go and fill the other holes up. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Had a look at the Detail & Scale yesterday, as I could have sworn it contains a table detailing which changes were made from which BuNo onwards. Alas, must've been somewhere else... It says the ZLL's were tested on the 3 but introduced on the 5. It also says that the Hellcat started to replace (factually) the slower bomber types in ground attack roles when the numbers available were sufficient. Finally, it appears that the tank wasn't fitted to early -3s. IIRC, that bulkhead behind the Pilot had shallow cut-outs to enable a degree of rearward Vision. It might have been made "full" after deletion of the Windows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 15/12/2016 at 8:22 AM, tempestfan said: Had a look at the Detail & Scale yesterday, as I could have sworn it contains a table detailing which changes were made from which BuNo onwards. Alas, must've been somewhere else... The D&S book is very good for that information but it is scattered through the text. And subsequent info has fleshed out the picture further. Where you might have seen a table is in Barratt Tilman's book on the Hellcat. Afraid I didn't buy the book just for that one very useful page of information. Again it's probably dated now. As regards bombracks on both wings, Hellcat Walkround says they had been introduced by F6F-5 Bu No 72223 and Pat Donahue on Hyperscale has a photo confirming 72230 with them. (For FAA fans this means Hellcat IIs from JX495 onwards should have had them as built - but that "by" means that some earlier aircraft may have had them). As regards rocket stubs they came in earlier, with the late F6F-3 (from Bu No 42185): source: Hellcat Walkround again. This means they should have appeared on FAA Hellcats from somewhere in the JV190-221 serial batch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 this may help, from here http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1459872713 What is the difference between Hellcat F6F5 and F6F3 ? thank modeldad for these cheers T 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Those look awfully like the 2 pages in the Tilman book! Note even Tilman is pretty hazy as to when the windows behind the cockpit disappeared: somewhere between the 1500th and 2000th F6F-5! . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 So much for a quick build!! It stalled when super glue got spilt all over the wings one night while I wasn't watching (I swear it was sabotage). Anyhow I've now recovered my mojo enough to have cleaned up the damage and re-scribe the effected areas and another question has come to mind (I think I know the answer but thought I'd check anyway). On the 3 (4?) colour scheme was the demarcation between the colours a soft edge or a hard edge, and were those lumps on the spine lights of some sort and and were the wingtip lights clear or coloured lenses? OK, that's 3 questions that I've tried, with the use of poor grammar, to disguise as one! Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 56 minutes ago, Duncan B said: So much for a quick build!! It stalled when super glue got spilt all over the wings one night while I wasn't watching (I swear it was sabotage). Anyhow I've now recovered my mojo enough to have cleaned up the damage and re-scribe the effected areas and another question has come to mind (I think I know the answer but thought I'd check anyway). On the 3 (4?) colour scheme was the demarcation between the colours a soft edge or a hard edge, and were those lumps on the spine lights of some sort and and were the wingtip lights clear or coloured lenses? OK, that's 3 questions that I've tried, with the use of poor grammar, to disguise as one! Duncan B Duncan I am wondering about the same question re. hard/soft demarcation lines. I posted a question recently about the printscale sheet which, mistakenly, suggests light grey undersides rather than white for the dark blue/mid-blue/white scheme. Dana Bell answered very quickly that the use of both non-specular sea blue and semigloss sea blue for the upper surfaces causes confusion because the former is grayer and fades more quickly than the latter. The nonspecular was used for the fuselage and the leading edges of wing and tailplane with semigloss being the upper surfaces of the wings and tailplanes. As a brush painter, I'm going for the softest demarcation I can manage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Hi gents, The demarkations were soft. Infact, the official instructions for "small" aircraft (e.g. fighters) initially stipulated a graduated blending of Non Specular Sea Blue in to the Insignia white down the sides of the fuselage, with the fin and rudder painted Intermediate Blue and the vertical surfaces of the fuselage so blended that they approximated the tone of Intermediate Blue. The Non-Specular Sea Blue on the leading edge of the wings was to extend 5 inches back from the leading edge into the Semi-Gloss Sea Blue. In practise, the blending of dark blue and white to approximate intermediate blue appears to have been dispensed with as being too much of a faff and most fighters can be seen with distinct sea blue, intermediate blue and insignia white areas, but everything was to be (and appeared to be) free hand painted soft edged. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 some period colour just about possible to see the change from non-specular to gloss Sea Blue on the wings on this I suspect the above two are the same aircraft. as can be seen, the scheme did fade a lot when in service note the repainted fuselage star I have seen a diagram on painting this scheme, on Hyperscale I think. I'll add it in if I can find it. EDIT not found that, but this is really worth a read, as it details some variants, http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1319567792/Hellcat+camouflage+evolution note the link to Tommy Thomasons's blog http://tailspintopics.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/ww-ii-color-scheme-anomaly.html http://tailspintopics.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/ww-ii-color-scheme-anomaly.html 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 This, ... is the image that pops in to my head when I hear the word "Hellcat". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks Gents, the demarcation is a lot sharper in those photos than I thought it would be, maybe the fading softened the edges. I must admit I am still struggling with seeing the 2 colours of blue on the wings, was it along the leading edge or inboard to outboard chord wise? (does that count as another question?) DB p.s. this is the image I currently see when I hear Hellcat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, Duncan B said: Thanks Gents, the demarcation is a lot sharper in those photos than I thought it would be, maybe the fading softened the edges. I must admit I am still struggling with seeing the 2 colours of blue on the wings, was it along the leading edge or inboard to outboard chord wise? (does that count as another question?) DB p.s. this is the image I currently see when I hear Hellcat It was along the leading edge -- something between 6 and 12 inches. It was pretty subtle. When the paint was fresh, the difference would be mainly in reflectance. As the paint weathered, the reflectance difference would decrease, but the NSSB would gradually become a little lighter/grayer. When I did an Avenger with the 4-color scheme, I mixed a small amount of Gull Gray to the Sea Blue for the fuselage and leading edges. The difference is visible, but not especially noticeable -- it doesn't leap out at you -- and you don't really see any difference between the fuselage and top wings aft of the leading edges. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 9 hours ago, Duncan B said: Thanks Gents, the demarcation is a lot sharper in those photos than I thought it would be, maybe the fading softened the edges. I must admit I am still struggling with seeing the 2 colours of blue on the wings, was it along the leading edge or inboard to outboard chord wise? (does that count as another question?) DB p.s. this is the image I currently see when I hear Hellcat Hi Duncan. This is of a TBF-1 Avenger but the attached painting diagram illustrates the Intermediate Blue Leading edges, and will apply to the F6F too. Grumman TBF-1 painting guide Bear in mind that only a portion of F6F's and TBF-1 wore the scheme, it was later discontinued, with later productions, to just painting the Semi Specular Sea Blue to the edges of the wings and tail planes, to make production more efficient. Hope That helps? Regards Alan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks for all your help Gentlemen. I see that the spinners were also painted more often than not, clear nav lights on the wing tips too. I was going to do a worn and faded scheme but I'm not so sure now, we'll see what happens when (if) I get to that stage. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, LDSModeller said: Hi Duncan. This is of a TBF-1 Avenger but the attached painting diagram illustrates the Intermediate Blue Leading edges, and will apply to the F6F too. Grumman TBF-1 painting guide Bear in mind that only a portion of F6F's and TBF-1 wore the scheme, it was later discontinued, with later productions, to just painting the Semi Specular Sea Blue to the edges of the wings and tail planes, to make production more efficient. Hope That helps? Regards Alan Hi Alan. Did you perhaps mean to say Non-Specular Sea Blue leading edges? That's what's shown in the guide to which you posted the link. Edited January 11, 2017 by Seawinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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