Chris Thomas Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) RNoAF submitted the following query "Hi guys. Can you help me with the colour and markings of 198 squadrons Hawker Typhoon MM 987 TP-Z? And did it have a 3- or 4-blade propeller?" I suspect that this originates from one of the profile drawings in Osprey Aircraft of the Aces 27, Typhoon and Tempest, which I wrote and Chris Davy illustrated. I was very keen to illustrate Sqn Ldr Johnnie Baldwin's Typhoon TP-Z which featured in press photos taken some time in late February of early March 1944 and carries his scoreboard with 13.5 kills. Unfortunately neither his logbook nor the squadron records enabled identification of the serial number of this aircraft. Knowing that there were few sliding hood Typhoon in service at this time I examined the records of all the unit's Typhoons at the time and MM987 seemed to be the most likely. The profile was duly completed and I noted the tentative identification in the extended caption in the Colour Plates section at the end of the book, also noting that the aircraft had been in an accident on 4 March 1944. Years go by ... and I am in touch with the pilot of MM987 when it had the accident and his log reveals it was actually coded TP-V! dammit. The recent postings re PR-Z took me into this territory once again so I will see if I can find another suspect. Meanwhile, a question for RNoAF. Are you interested in TP-Z (Baldwin's aircraft with the kill markings) or MM987, now known to be TP-V? Both, incidentally had 3-blade props and the small tailplane. Chris Thomas Edited November 22, 2016 by Chris Thomas Typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Hi Chris. Thank you for this post. I have the montex masks for the Airfix 1/24 Typhoon K24070: http://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-planes-paint-masks-stencils-montex-mon-k24070 But based on what you are writing here this profile of TP-Z is wrong?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 3 hours ago, RNoAF said: Hi Chris. Thank you for this post. I have the montex masks for the Airfix 1/24 Typhoon K24070: http://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-planes-paint-masks-stencils-montex-mon-k24070 But based on what you are writing here this profile of TP-Z is wrong?? As far as I can see MonteX have based their decals of TP -Z on artwork in my Osprey book ( see previous post). I have not seen a photo or profile of this aircraft, which shows it's serial number, elsewhere. As stated above, the serial number MM987 seemed, from aircraft allocation records, to be the most likely. However, I subsequently found that MM987 was actually coded TP-V. So, the Montex profile/decal is incorrect. I have just looked at the records of aircraft allocated to 198 Sqn at the appropriate time and there are a lot of possibilities to check through. I'll post something tomorrow. Montex got the spinner colour wrong. It had a Sky-painted front half but the rear half was black. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Ok. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 Having ploughed through nearly 150 individual Typhoon histories I believe I have identified the first sliding hood Typhoon delivered to 198 Squadron. This was JR445, delivered on 13 December 1943 and in his logbook Sqn Ldr J.R.Baldwin changes from flying TP-X as his regular aircraft to TP-Z, so I am fairly confident that TP-Z was JR445. The photos on which the TP-Z artwork was based were taken some time between18 February 1944 (when Baldwin returned from a Fighter Leader School course) and 18 March when the squadron moved to Tangmere. I cannot prove that TP-Z had not been replaced by a newer aircraft in the intervening weeks but there is no evidence that it had. The next known TP-Z was MN314 which arrived with the squadron on 14 March 1944 but that aircraft would have had the later version of the exhaust fairings (as seen on the RAF Museum's MN235) whereas the aircraft in the TP-Z photos has the earlier form of exhaust fairing. So my money is on JR445 ... but I can't prove that it was the TP-Z in the photo. Best I can do. CT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Thank you very much for the help Chris. I think i will build the Typhoon named Peace River instead. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 10 hours ago, RNoAF said: Thank you very much for the help Chris. I think i will build the Typhoon named Peace River instead. :-) Ok. Don't know if your refs indicate it, but Peace River, 5V-G, MN345, was one of that relatively small batch of Typhoons that had a large tailplane with a 3-blade prop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) D**** it!!! Im running out of options here..... I want to build a 4 blade prop typhoon! Edited November 24, 2016 by RNoAF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I think i wanna build Pulverizer II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, RNoAF said: I think i wanna build Pulverizer II. Go for it. 4-blades, large tailplane. The regular pilot, Harry Hardy, is still with us. You should find plenty of refs including photos on the net. Bomb log and name were in yellow not white. Second row of bomb log is fiction. It should be a number of diagonal broomsticks - for 'sweeps'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 So the eaglecals sheet are not correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 Thought you were using Montex. Not familiar with Eaglecals. Will see if I can find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 Ok found then. Look very good. They depict the aircraft shortly before it was lost, December 1944, by which time more bombs, sweeps and the diving Vargas girl had been added. The Montex masks attempt to show the aircraft as in an earlier photo c. October 1944. The name Pulverizer II was carried on both sides of the nose but I think the bomb log or the Vargas girl would have been on the starboard side only (the side the pilot entered). That was the more normal way of personal markings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Ok, thank you very much for the info. I`m planning to build it with a full rocket load :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 G 31 minutes ago, RNoAF said: Ok, thank you very much for the info. I`m planning to build it with a full rocket load :-) I've reached the point where I don't care if you put bananas on it. They'd be as accurate as RP on an RCAF Typhoon. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNoAF Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Just now, Chris Thomas said: G I've reached the point where I don't care if you put bananas on it. They'd be as accurate as RP on an RCAF Typhoon. Didnt they use rockets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Chris Thomas said: G I've reached the point where I don't care if you put bananas on it. They'd be as accurate as RP on an RCAF Typhoon. If ever I feel the need to sign up to a 'What if' group build, my entry will be a maple leaf festooned Typhoon with eight bananas hanging from the rocket rails. Thanks, Chris. Still chuckling. John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, johnd said: If ever I feel the need to sign up to a 'What if' group build, my entry will be a maple leaf festooned Typhoon with eight bananas hanging from the rocket rails. Excellent, although I believe bunches, if not clusters would be in order. With HE/SAP heads of course. Highly Edible/Semi Automatic Peelers. Apologies to RNoAF but something snapped. Yes, just before DDay Typhoon squadron specialised with RP or bombs. The RCAF squadrons (438,439,440) only ever used bombs. The RP sqns were 137, 164, 174, 175, 181, 182, 184, 198, 245, 247, 609 and 183, 263 and 266 swung both ways , so to speak. CT 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 You say the Vargas girl was probably only carried on the starboard side, so could I have a mixed load, with bananas (HE/SAP) on the port? (Were the later Sabrinas a development of the Vargas?) Another thing we've apparently lost with this new software is the "coat" emoticon. Newspeak is diminished... bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, gingerbob said: You say the Vargas girl was probably only carried on the starboard side, so could I have a mixed load, with bananas (HE/SAP) on the port? (Were the later Sabrinas a development of the Vargas?) Another thing we've apparently lost with this new software is the "coat" emoticon. Newspeak is diminished... bob That coat is indeed a loss, bob. You certainly needed it here. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 26, 2016 Author Share Posted November 26, 2016 There you are Bob. Just what you need. Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Oh joy! testing: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 More seriously, running your list of squadrons through my "chart" (the one I sent you the other day, Chris), I have the following squadrons remaining? 257 197 193 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted November 26, 2016 Author Share Posted November 26, 2016 1 hour ago, gingerbob said: More seriously, running your list of squadrons through my "chart" (the one I sent you the other day, Chris), I have the following squadrons remaining? 257 197 193 Yes, I knew some keen-eyed sleuth would spot that. Didn't mention them as they were bombs only. I mentioned the RCAF bomber sqns as they had been mentioned earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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