Airfix Victor delayed?

[CurrantBunbury]

I'm getting one as soon as I can free up the funds. Yes, it's a big wad of money, but a 1/72 V bomber is a lot of aeroplane. I love the Victor, and I've been looking forward to this ever since it was announced. I don't have much money to dedicate to this hobby, but I like to spend my budget on things that make me happy, and if that's one new V bomber instead of two or three older, smaller jets, then I don't mind.

[Britman]

Who would fork out £100 for a big Typhoon?  Many have!

[PhantomBigStu]

13 hours ago, MADMUSKY said:

I think £60 is steep for Tamiyas 48th Tomcat, but at least it was 48th, paying the same for a 72nd scale aircraft kit is extortionate, no matter what aircraft it is.

 

seems a bit of a silly statement madmusty, yes 1/48 are 50% larger and I suppose 50% more detailled, but there a 1/72 aircraft that come much larger than the smaller 1/48's, £60 extortionate for a 1/72 B-52 thats almost double your tomcat size with its wings extended? 

 

[stever219]

9 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

Don't forget you have to add 20% VAT on top of the distributor's mark-up.

 

The retailers can claim that VAT back from HMRC, provided that they're registered for VAT of course.  The distributor/wholesaler will also claim back the VAT charged by the supplier or incurred when the goods are imported from a non-EC country.  It's a while since I checked but Customs Duty on kits is between nothing and not very much, but is not recoverable from HMRC (although I've seen it tried).

 

OK that VAT represents adverse cash flow to the retailer but will not be a cost on the trading profit and loss account at year-end.

 

Goods from an EC country are sbject to Acquisition Tax: the UK business calculates VAT at 20% on the cost of the goods and adds it to the VAT declared on sales n that period, but also adds it to the VAT on purchases to be claimed back in the same period.  For most purveyors of kits the overall effect is tax-neutral and there's often less "lag" in the cash flow.

 

I'm looking forward to the Airfix Victor: the aeroplane has always fascinated me and one of my abiding memories is being able to sit in the captain's seat of XL231 at Marham, having first had a good walk round her, whilst in the CCF in the mid-seventies.  To me £60 is not unreasonable for such a kit, but why would I want to pay £10 more for a 1/48th Tomcat?

Edited November 23, 2016 by stever219

[Truro Model Builder]

Well, it rather depends if your annual turnover is big enough that you can claim VAT back. As yet I do not qualify, though I live in hope.

 

As a retailer, a group that seems to be coming in for a bit of a kicking here, there have been a lot of price rises imposed by suppliers, and about that most of us can do little but pass it on. Profit margins and the fact that all of our bills are on the rise as well prevent us from doing little else. As far as Airfix is concerned, orders placed before the price rise will be honoured by the company at the older price. For me, that means that I will price the Victor at the older price when it arrives in stock. When I reorder they will be sold at the newer price, as that will reflect the price I will buy them at. Some companies were very quick to raise prices when they were announced by Airfix, but I will not criticise them as I do not know what their financial status is.

 

And no, we do not pay for goods before they are delivered. And if any supplier decides it wants payment before delivery they will be out of business PDQ.

 

[Black Knight]

You can voluntarily register for VAT. Depends if its worth it to you. When I had my magazine publishing business I registered as we were paying VAT on supplies but putting out a zero rated product; thus we got all the VAT refunded on what we spent.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

46 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

 

seems a bit of a silly statement madmusty, yes 1/48 are 50% larger and I suppose 50% more detailled, but there a 1/72 aircraft that come much larger than the smaller 1/48's, £60 extortionate for a 1/72 B-52 thats almost double your tomcat size with its wings extended? 

 

 

My thoughts too - a 1/72 scale battleship can't be worth less than a 1/48 scale motorbike. It's the size and cost of the tooling and the amount of plastic you're paying for, not a mathematical ratio written on the box.

 

As for Airfix's approach nowadays - good for them. The number of times I've seen newcomers to the hobby strongly steered away from Airfix as a brand due to the quality of the mouldings, engineering, fit etc and towards AN Other brand is colossal. The older generation who grew up with Airfix and buy crap old kits for nostalgia is only worth so much. As a proper business with financial reality to deal with, Airfix needs to be competitive. Airfix's competitors are almost all (except a couple I won't name) aiming at a standard which 15 years ago would have been considered excellent. Now it's just what the market expects and demands. Nowadays Airfix are considered a safe bet as far as new models are concerned, and another couple of companies have proudly filled the gap with cheap kits that one can safely expect to tick one or both of the "Bad fit" or "Wrong shape" boxes - it's just a matter of letting someone else buy one first and find out what's wrong with it.

[Caerbannog]

It is not just Airfix raising prices. If I am not mistaken the Revell 1:48 Tornado in the first release with special livery was around 20 Eur. The Brit. Version released later with a few different parts is sold for around 30 Euro... Just one example which springs to my mind.

Another thing is I have the feeling that many retail prices include a higher marging to cope with special sale prices...

60GBP seems quite a steep price for a 1:72 Victor when you look back at average kit prices some years ago. But as said above - that was some time ago. Compared to an old tool Airfix 1:72 Vulcan which is sold for 40 GBP I think the 60 GBP for the Victor are well invested...

Cheer up - you now have the choice between a new tool Victor with good detailing and the old Matchbox one. And for those who can wait, there is still the hope on a cheaper second hand Airfix Victor kit later. Another plus: My stash increases less quickly now :-)

[tempestfan]

15 minutes ago, Caerbannog said:

It is not just Airfix raising prices. If I am not mistaken the Revell 1:48 Tornado in the first release with special livery was around 20 Eur. The Brit. Version released later with a few different parts is sold for around 30 Euro...

I think the RRP on the initial release was 25 €, but you could get the kit for under 20 when Shopping around a bit. But of course you're right: Revell's new too 4-engined Bombers were an incredible 20 € RRP when released (the first at least), creeping up by some 10 % over time, and now I think at 25 or even 30. If the latter, that's quite drastic - but the Shack is 40, and would have been 25 a couple of years back. Italeri upped their Prices tremendously some 10 years ago, so much so that I won't by any Italeri for the time being - 20 € for their old 1/72 F-5E, nice kit it may be ? When I visited my LMS for the first time in a year or so recently, Minicraft (ex Crown) 1/144 fighters were priced at 13 € or so... mad ! So, as has been said, it's not an Airfix-specific phenomenon.

[MADMUSKY]

1 hour ago, PhantomBigStu said:

 

seems a bit of a silly statement madmusty, yes 1/48 are 50% larger and I suppose 50% more detailled, but there a 1/72 aircraft that come much larger than the smaller 1/48's, £60 extortionate for a 1/72 B-52 thats almost double your tomcat size with its wings extended?

 

 

I dont see it as a silly statement, like i say i dont think any 1-72nd AIRCRAFT kit is worth that price. Thats my opition, if its your subject and are willing to pay...crack on. Theres kits in the scale i model that i wont buy due to the fact i think the price is steep, but then again im a tight Scotsman

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

23 minutes ago, MADMUSKY said:

 

I dont see it as a silly statement, like i say i dont think any 1-72nd AIRCRAFT kit is worth that price. Thats my opition, if its your subject and are willing to pay...crack on. Theres kits in the scale i model that i wont buy due to the fact i think the price is steep, but then again im a tight Scotsman

 

So a 1/48 Bf109 is inherently worth more than a 1/72 Tu95 Bear despite the latter very obviously costing more to tool and providing several times as much plastic in the box? That makes absolutely no sense to me however I try to approach it but each to their own  

 

[Mike]

Must every thread about a product devolve into an argument about whether it's worth the "extortionate" price they're asking for it?  Some people will happily pay whatever price is on the box, others won't, due to a combination of perceived value, their own value system, sometimes an element of being out of touch with reality, and even a few that are just tightwads.  Do we have to engage in bickering over it?  Discuss the kit by all means, but this fruitless whining about price is just that.  If you don't want to pay the asking price, either walk away, or wait 'til it's discounted later on.  We all have different budgets, views on what is worthy etc., so let's not try to inflict our values on anyone that disagrees.  It gets us nowhere other than closer to needing blood pressure meds.

 

How much is it anyway? £60?   That's a lot to some, not to others.  How does it compare to your Sky subs so you can sit on your butt and watch TV, your weekly shopping bill so you don't die of starvation, a couple of Blu-ray discs that'll entertain you for a few hours?  8 or 9 packs of cigarettes that might kill you at some indeterminate point in the future

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly a thread drifts.

What started as a question as to whether or not the Airfix Victor has been delayed (and it was answered fairly quickly) is now on page 2 and seems more to do with prices 

As I type this I see Mike has posted thus making mine redundant but to finish

 

We cannot expect our hobby to remain without prices going up to reflect real life.

Pity I can't still get an Airfix Spitfire for 2/- though!

Richard

[MADMUSKY]

Amazing one persons "opition" can cause so many replies.

[Mike]

9 minutes ago, MADMUSKY said:

"opition"

 

A what now?

[MADMUSKY]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

A what now?

 

"opinion"  doh check before posting 

[Mike]

made me laugh at least... and yes, I'm easily amused

[lasermonkey]

With all due respect, one man's pointless whingeing  about prices is another man's real concern about being priced out of the hobby. I have no idea whether Airfix, or any other manufacturers for that matter, read these threads, but if these concerns aren't aired, they'll never know.

 For me, it's probably just as well I like single-engined prop-jobs, because I have a feeling my future will consist mainly of these!

[tempestfan]

1 minute ago, lasermonkey said:

With all due respect, one man's pointless whingeing  about prices is another man's real concern about being priced out of the hobby. I have no idea whether Airfix, or any other manufacturers for that matter, read these threads, but if these concerns aren't aired, they'll never know.

 For me, it's probably just as well I like single-engined prop-jobs, because I have a feeling my future will consist mainly of these!

I think you Need not worry. Looking at the Prices kits go for on ebay, you will usually be able to get most kits at a fraction of current RRP there, especially if they are considered outdated by the market and are not collectible. After a couple of years, this probably applies also to kits that are new at the Moment. My Feeling is that many modelers buy more than they can chew/build when a kit comes out (ask me how I know, with 4 1/24 Typhoons...they were all relative bargains, so sort of impulse buys, in my defence ), and a lot of them will find their way on the 2nd Hand market at reasonable Prices over the years.

In effect, the matter of Price is highly individual, just like (perceived) Quality, so a kit is worth exactly what you are willing to pay for. --- I wonder who had the great idea to implement an autocorrect Feature in Explorer, especially one that isn't able to detect the language one is writing in

[Seahawk]

19 minutes ago, tempestfan said:

Looking at the Prices kits go for on ebay, you will usually be able to get most kits at a fraction of current RRP there, especially if they are considered outdated by the market and are not collectible. After a couple of years, this probably applies also to kits that are new at the Moment.

 

I think this is the new reality, particularly in the case of Airfix.  You can pay a premium (aka the RRP) to be part of the lemming-like rush to be the first to get your hands on a new kit or you can bide your time, maybe even (radical thought here) build a kit or two out of that absurdly large stash and then snap the same kit up a year or two later at a fraction of the price.  I've already picked up kits like the Whitley and Shackleton at 30% off RRP and that's even before they've been remaindered by Airfix like the Lightnings and Lancaster II were.

 

Returning to the topic of the Victor, I think Airfix has done everyone including themselves an immense favour by prolonging the anticipation for a few precious days.  About a week after release it will be yesterday's news and the only talk will be of the next new release.

[tempestfan]

To be fair, the Lemmings (and of course the recycled, financially written-off sities' moulds) make Airfix the Money to continue their Business, and to provide the rest with cheaper kits in a couple of years time. I confess having been one of those greedy guys trolling around the toy dept.s of departments stores in early January to grab up what Revell remaindered. I mean, if everyone waits until the Ventura is down to 10 €, they will stop doing new kits. The other side of the coin is that I have 9 Venturas

[canberra kid]

Had the new Airfix Victor been delayed? 

John

[stever219]

Yes John, a few posts back it was said now to be due on the 15th of December.  Good job my slush fund's already in place.

[Nocoolname]

17 hours ago, Uncle Dick said:

Yes - Airfix could probably raise the price to £200 and those desperate enough for an Airfix Victor will fork it up 

Sorry, my limit is £199. Gotta have some standards

[STRAT'71]

As I have mine on pre-order with Airfix at £54.99, that is what I will pay.

I would pay £100 if I had to. My most favourite aeroplane ever.

When you think what a Railroad Hornby loco costs now, the Victor is good value.

Edited November 23, 2016 by STRAT'71
Feeling chatty.