Here we go, next Seafire Airfix Mk 17

[corsaircorp]

 

Hello,

As it has been told, I started my next Seafire.

I will thank Miggers for the infos about Seafire wings. That will make a more accurate Seafire.

Here's the first modification

 I did cut the bulged overwing from the folded wing from the Airfix Seafire 47 following structures lines.

Then I adjust it to the Mk 17's wing in order to follow the folding line.

 

Some of the add's on, the Quickboost exhaust stacks an Eduard Dashboard and a resin made seat.

Since SX 370 is a Seafire FR 17, I will bore the camera port holes, but no camera has been installed, so I will add the empty racks.

Thank for watching.

Next WIP saturday or Sunday, a little bit more... Let's say crazy.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

[Troy Smith]

Hi Corsaircorp

You seem to be interested in accuracy?

 

the Airfix Seafire XVII is a mixed bag,  after  load of research and comparison of most 1/48th Spitfire and Seafire, the big surprise about the Airfix Seafire XVII and Spitfire XII (same research for both)  is how many faults they share with the frequently lambasted Academy XIV kit...

 

The Airfix scores over the  Academy by not having an oversized nose ring and  spinner base, but both  have over deep fuselages, and 'Tamiya' wing.

As you have  the Airfix Seafire 46/47, try comparing the fuselages,the rear part should be  the same.  If you  want more details of  faults, let me know and I dig out the kits.

 

the Academy does have fixable prop  blades, the Airfix are blades are useless.

 

from http://www.agapemodels.com/2011/06/12/kit-preview-airfixs-148-seafire-mk-xvii/

the above pic  is back  to front, (the Griffon rotates in the opposite direction to  a Merlin)

notice while they match the blades when partly rotated...

 

but when seen flat on, they can be seen to be too narrow

 

I had a go  at fixing the Spit XII prop, but after  hour with plastic strip and superglue I wasn't getting anywhere I was happy with..

Plasto in the linked build

see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234999357-seafire-xvii-airfix-148/

 

 used modified Barracudacals blades,   though I've just realised that the seafire 46/47 comes with two sets of  blades so some of those might help if you  have them spare. (and gives me a spinner source for the Academy kit  )   

 

one  thing  that  should help  is the  walkround pics here, the prop blade photos are from here

 

Hope  of use use/interest.

 

cheers

T
 

[Col.]

An interesting solution to the bulge issue Corsaircorp.

[Nickthebrief]

Were the bulges on a late Mk 17 wing as big as on an FR46/47 wing?

Just thought I'd ask.....

Good luck with the build - I'm sure you'll do a great job.

Nick.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Nickthebrief said:

Were the bulges on a late Mk 17 wing as big as on an FR46/47 wing?

Just thought I'd ask.....

Good luck with the build - I'm sure you'll do a great job.

Nick.

 

from

the bulges on Spitfires were to do with gear legs better suited to paved runways IIRC, which changed the wheel tracking.

 

The Eduard XVI kit has two types of wing, with

and without bulges

the later wing of the 20 series Spitfire and Seafire is totally new.

 

[Val]

Will be good to see another Seafire come together. Whilst I can't comment on the accuracy, I will say it's one of the most fun kits I've put together. Have fun

[corsaircorp]

22 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Hi Corsaircorp

You seem to be interested in accuracy?

 

the Airfix Seafire XVII is a mixed bag,  after  load of research and comparison of most 1/48th Spitfire and Seafire, the big surprise about the Airfix Seafire XVII and Spitfire XII (same research for both)  is how many faults they share with the frequently lambasted Academy XIV kit...

 

The Airfix scores over the  Academy by not having an oversized nose ring and  spinner base, but both  have over deep fuselages, and 'Tamiya' wing.

As you have  the Airfix Seafire 46/47, try comparing the fuselages,the rear part should be  the same.  If you  want more details of  faults, let me know and I dig out the kits.

 

the Academy does have fixable prop  blades, the Airfix are blades are useless.

 

from http://www.agapemodels.com/2011/06/12/kit-preview-airfixs-148-seafire-mk-xvii/

the above pic  is back  to front, (the Griffon rotates in the opposite direction to  a Merlin)

notice while they match the blades when partly rotated...

 

but when seen flat on, they can be seen to be too narrow

 

I had a go  at fixing the Spit XII prop, but after  hour with plastic strip and superglue I wasn't getting anywhere I was happy with..

Plasto in the linked build

see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234999357-seafire-xvii-airfix-148/

 

 used modified Barracudacals blades,   though I've just realised that the seafire 46/47 comes with two sets of  blades so some of those might help if you  have them spare. (and gives me a spinner source for the Academy kit  )   

 

one  thing  that  should help  is the  walkround pics here, the prop blade photos are from here

 

Hope  of use use/interest.

 

cheers

T
 

Hello Troy,

Obviously, it's helpfull. However I did'nt consider myself as a rivet counter, Yes, I must confess that I like accuracy.

Each time I paid a look at the propeller of the Mk 17, I feel that someting is wrong, now with your photos, it is an evidence.

I've the Barracudacals prop blades for the FR 47. So I will follow you.

For my Airfix Mk XII, I've a complete nose, I received it from a friend, but I've to clean it up because there is lots of bubbles in the resin.

But I don't know the original transkit.

[corsaircorp]

Just now, corsaircorp said:

Hello Troy,

Obviously, it's helpfull. However I did'nt consider myself as a rivet counter, Yes, I must confess that I like accuracy.

Each time I paid a look at the propeller of the Mk 17, I feel that someting is wrong, now with your photos, it is an evidence.

I've the Barracudacals prop blades for the FR 47. So I will follow you.

For my Airfix Mk XII, I've a complete nose, I received it from a friend, but I've to clean it up because there is lots of bubbles in the resin.

But I don't know the original transkit.

About the Academy Mk XIV, I've got 2 of it, but I also have the Daco prod correction kit, the nose is about to be duplicated.

I will have a look at the prop and spinner, I will show it on this post asap.

If I can help...

I also duplicated the gullwing from a Tamiya Mk V for correcting the Otaki Mk VIII that will became a PR XI.

I really like Britmodeller, I like to share and receive. I really thank you.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

[Col.]

11 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

I also duplicated the gullwing from a Tamiya Mk V for correcting the Otaki Mk VIII that will became a PR XI.

Always happy to hear of someone planning to model, what is to my mind at least, the loveliest of all Spitfire variants.

[corsaircorp]

4 minutes ago, Col. said:

Always happy to hear of someone planning to model, what is to my mind at least, the loveliest of all Spitfire variants.

The PR XI is also my favourite Spitfire, I've almost anything to do it.

But look, when it will be nearly finished, Eduard will get one on his catalog, you bet ??

I'm that kind of Lucky modeller.

Thank for watching.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

[corsaircorp]

22 minutes ago, Col. said:

Always happy to hear of someone planning to model, what is to my mind at least, the loveliest of all Spitfire variants.

Hope that I'll not start an outrage, but I will reproduce an american PR XI

I really like "the upstairs maid"

Corsaircorp

[Col.]

18 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

The PR XI is also my favourite Spitfire, I've almost anything to do it.

But look, when it will be nearly finished, Eduard will get one on his catalog, you bet ??

I'm that kind of Lucky modeller.

Thank for watching.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

In much the same way as Airfix announced their new Sea Fury a couple weeks after I added the last aftermarket parts desired to a Hobbycraft Sea Fury future project  

1 minute ago, corsaircorp said:

Hope that I'll not start an outrage, but I will reproduce an american PR XI

I really like "the upstairs maid"

Corsaircorp

It's your model. You do whatever you want with it  

[corsaircorp]

33 minutes ago, Col. said:

In much the same way as Airfix announced their new Sea Fury a couple weeks after I added the last aftermarket parts desired to a Hobbycraft Sea Fury future project  

 

Exactly... That is what I mean.

Corsaircorp

[Troy Smith]

55 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

About the Academy Mk XIV, I've got 2 of it, but I also have the Daco prod correction kit, the nose is about to be duplicated.

I will have a look at the prop and spinner, I will show it on this post asap.

If I can help...

I also duplicated the gullwing from a Tamiya Mk V for correcting the Otaki Mk VIII that will became a PR XI.

I really like Britmodeller, I like to share and receive. I really thank you.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

Hi CC

 

I have the Daco set for the Academy  XIV, (got cheap  as package)  it only corrects the nose, and leaves the fuselage depth alone. 

the Academy has a whin that is 1or 1.5 mm too thick,  the wing should be 7 mm deep, the Academy  is over 8mm.

I posted some  info before....

Quote

The Academy XIV is pretty inaccurate, the Daco correction set does not really deal with problem, that the entire fuselage is too deep, and the wing is too thick, in 1/48 the wing should be 7mm deep. 
the wing also has has the Tamiya wing problem, too broad in chord, and is too far back. 
the rads are to deep and too slim, and the wheel wells are oval. 

The spinner is hopeless, but the rest can be corrected with 'some modelling skill' 

I've been working on fixes 'for fun' 

Here's the nose modified, not how the undercowl line is moved up, and the need for thinning the wing 
 

the exhausts are too low as well. note the nose ring is too big, the cuts allow it to be slimmed down. 

 
I think the Academy can be fixed with just good old modelling skill, and  a surplus spinner from a Seafire 46, I have a part hacked one as can be seen above.

Compare the Daco nose with the Airfix 22/24 or Seafire 46/47 to see the depth problem.

 

One useful point, not widely appreciated, the front part of the front of  ALL Griffon Spitfires and Seafires is the same, the two stage versions are longer at the back of the engine compartment, as that is where the 2 stage supercharger is, but the nose ring, exhausts, rocker bulges, engine mounts etc are the same on the single  stage (Spit XII, Seafire XV and XVII) as the XIV/XVIII/XIX etc.

I got  this from member MkXII

see

He  actually owned the remains of the only surviving Mk. XII!!!! EN224

thread here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/Mark12/Album%204/12EN224-06-001.jpg

with this photo....what a garage!

 

I'm awaiting some measurements of his Seafire XVII cowl parts to really finalise the early Griffon versions length.

 

The Otaki has some good shapes, but needs a lot of work, it maybe 'easier' to graft a Merlin 60 nose onto an Airfix PR XIX,  or at least use the  wings and underfuselage cameras.

 

I did start trying to use the Occidental/Italeri IX to make a XI, as the too low thrust line of the Occi kit can be used to make the deeper PR undercowl... but that is another story.

 

Do you have the Cooke Griffon Spitfire plans? 

 

Can send you a link...

 

glad the info has been of use.

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

[corsaircorp]

5 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Hi CC

 

I have the Daco set for the Academy  XIV, (got cheap  as package)  it only corrects the nose, and leaves the fuselage depth alone. 

the Academy has a whin that is 1or 1.5 mm too thick,  the wing should be 7 mm deep, the Academy  is over 8mm.

I posted some  info before....

 
I think the Academy can be fixed with just good old modelling skill, and  a surplus spinner from a Seafire 46, I have a part hacked one as can be seen above.

Compare the Daco nose with the Airfix 22/24 or Seafire 46/47 to see the depth problem.

 

One useful point, not widely appreciated, the front part of the front of  ALL Griffon Spitfires and Seafires is the same, the two stage versions are longer at the back of the engine compartment, as that is where the 2 stage supercharger is, but the nose ring, exhausts, rocker bulges, engine mounts etc are the same on the single  stage (Spit XII, Seafire XV and XVII) as the XIV/XVIII/XIX etc.

I got  this from member MkXII

see

He  actually owned the remains of the only surviving Mk. XII!!!! EN224

thread here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/Mark12/Album%204/12EN224-06-001.jpg

with this photo....what a garage!

 

I'm awaiting some measurements of his Seafire XVII cowl parts to really finalise the early Griffon versions length.

 

The Otaki has some good shapes, but needs a lot of work, it maybe 'easier' to graft a Merlin 60 nose onto an Airfix PR XIX,  or at least use the  wings and underfuselage cameras.

 

I did start trying to use the Occidental/Italeri IX to make a XI, as the too low thrust line of the Occi kit can be used to make the deeper PR undercowl... but that is another story.

 

Do you have the Cooke Griffon Spitfire plans? 

 

Can send you a link...

 

glad the info has been of use.

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

Hi Troy,

This garage is well over my sweetest dream, Waoow. This man has a very understanding wife.

Wonderfull, far over any Aircraft in a barn stories...

No I did'nt have the cooke plans, I use to work with some plans from MAM and Spitfire the history.

Will be glad to see it.

Years ago, I've been a little helping hand on the Florennes AB Spitfire Mk XIV.

The wing problem will be a little bit too worse for my modeller skill, but now that I know it.

Thank you again.

Corsaircorp

[Troy Smith]

glad it's of interest.  The garage pic is something else, note the car number plates with serial numbers, the other plane is LA564

 

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p054.html

Quote

LA564Seafire 46G87FF 14-3-46 F/Lt Wigley CRD High Post 2-5-46 AAEE 14-9-46 hand trials (Quill) 4x100lb RP 1x500lb bomb depth charge 8xRPs and 50gal torpedo shaped drop tank. RNAS Fleetlands 14-10-46 rep RNAS Gosport 9-5-47 RNAS Anthorn 1-49 767S 4-50 738S 7-50 SOC RNAS Anthorn 29-6-51 Extant under restoration by Peter Arnold Newport Pagnell One RAF source quotes that this airframe was PV585 produced at CBAF renumbered del 27-4-46

 

the wing thinning is real easy, you need to remove about  1 mm from the wing root, but less as you go out, like a very long thin triangle. try using a fine tip permanent marker and  drawing a 1/2 mm lineon each  wing half, you can lay the inside of the wing on a flat surface and use that to draw a thin straight line, then scrape down to this,

this is an eduard Tempest, but the method is the same

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77475-jaguar-tempest-kit/&do=findComment&comment=851747

 

the academy wing needs to come up at the back, so thinning the trailing edge  is good too.... looks like more photos are needed...

 

also worth getting a scraper

 

see 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proops-Wood-Cabinet-Carbon-Steel-Kidney-Scraper-180mm-4-5-Woodworking-W3340-/351350083083

 

 

makes thinning wings really fast and easy, practice  on scrap first.  

 

note, while crude, the old Hobbycraft Spitfire XIV is really good shape wise!

 

Can  you still get access to the Florennes XIV?    You could confirm some measurements for  me

Always a treat to  get up close to the real thing anyway.

 

I'll PM you some info later

cheers

T

[corsaircorp]

8 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

glad it's of interest.  The garage pic is something else, note the car number plates with serial numbers, the other plane is LA564

 

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p054.html

 

the wing thinning is real easy, you need to remove about  1 mm from the wing root, but less as you go out, like a very long thin triangle. try using a fine tip permanent marker and  drawing a 1/2 mm lineon each  wing half, you can lay the inside of the wing on a flat surface and use that to draw a thin straight line, then scrape down to this,

this is an eduard Tempest, but the method is the same

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77475-jaguar-tempest-kit/&do=findComment&comment=851747

 

the academy wing needs to come up at the back, so thinning the trailing edge  is good too.... looks like more photos are needed...

 

also worth getting a scraper

 

see 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proops-Wood-Cabinet-Carbon-Steel-Kidney-Scraper-180mm-4-5-Woodworking-W3340-/351350083083

 

 

makes thinning wings really fast and easy, practice  on scrap first.  

 

note, while crude, the old Hobbycraft Spitfire XIV is really good shape wise!

 

Can  you still get access to the Florennes XIV?    You could confirm some measurements for  me

Always a treat to  get up close to the real thing anyway.

 

I'll PM you some info later

cheers

T

Hello Troy,

Getting access to the Spitfire itself is easy, but since the 2 old soldiers has passed away, (we were friends) I can just coming in and have a look, just like anybody.

So I can try to have the measurement you need, just let me know.

Otherwise, I have the complete TO for the Mk XIV. I did get the original on loan and I copy every sheets of paper, back in '90, it has costed a lot..

Thank you for the info, I will try this.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

[corsaircorp]

On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 10:48, corsaircorp said:

Hello Troy,

Getting access to the Spitfire itself is easy, but since the 2 old soldiers has passed away, (we were friends) I can just coming in and have a look, just like anybody.

So I can try to have the measurement you need, just let me know.

Otherwise, I have the complete TO for the Mk XIV. I did get the original on loan and I copy every sheets of paper, back in '90, it has costed a lot..

Thank you for the info, I will try this.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

Hello,

The resin Mk XII nose I did get from my friend is an Airwave one, did anyone know this part and is these one correct in shape and dimensions.

Or did it suffer from the same problem than the DACO nose for Mk XIV ?

Thank you beforehand.

Corsaircorp.

[Troy Smith]

AFAIK the Airwaves  nose is not that good.   I've not seen it, but Vedran had the Airwaves  Seafire XV nose and was not impressed.

 

the  best  way  to a 1/48th Spit XII is the  Special Hobby kit,  despite the naysayers, see the link  on 'building  a better Spitfire XII' 

HTH

T

 

[Miggers]

You're looking at pictures of SX336?,the man that owns that garage is the man that rescued SX336 from a scrapyard in 1973,

so yes he owned her too at one stage.

 

This guy:http://www.spitfire22.com/

[corsaircorp]

Hello dears,

Here, I'm back sooner than expected.

Did'nt sleep well with this affair of nose , wing and spinner.

When looking in plain profile, the Mk 17 did'nt show  the tip of her nose since the rockers covers are prominent, All right.

But the original rockers were already cemented, so I start a nose aesthetical surgery. My problem is ... when I glue Something, I did'nt cry the cement

The bulge on the wings is nearly finished

I started to open the camera ports, sanding a bit and...

Make a super scratch on the secong bulge, Grmmmmbl, that mean a bit more sanding.

I did compare the nose from th Mk 17 and the PR XIX, see..

The Seafire has her exhaust line 1mm lower tha the PR XIX

Compared with the Airwave resin nose for the Mk XII, there is a difference of almost 2mm

I will correct all this and thinning the wing, smells of silicome and resin are rising...

That will be the hell if I can't rectify the Seafire with all this material and plans.

But, she is not ready for RFI tomorrow.

I Wonder about the righteousness of the PR XIX, obviously, the rockers covers are'nt high enough but the exhaust line seem to be right.

Ok, yes I also have started my PR XIX weeks ago...;

Have a very nice day.

Sincerely

Corsaircorp

[Nickthebrief]

Given all the trouble you're going to, to get this model accurate, and going back to my question posed earlier in the thread, I think the bulges from the FR47 wing are too big for the Mk 17... I'm no expert - but they just seem too large...

Nick.

[corsaircorp]

4 hours ago, Nickthebrief said:

Given all the trouble you're going to, to get this model accurate, and going back to my question posed earlier in the thread, I think the bulges from the FR47 wing are too big for the Mk 17... I'm no expert - but they just seem too large...

Nick.

Hello Nick,

You're maybe right, there is a reinforcement plate all around the bulge on the  Seafire 47

And this is not visible on the Seafire 17's wing.

I will thin it down a bit, wathever the very nice scratch has to be erased, two goals in just one shot.

My Hobbycraft Corsair is also such a cut, sand, add and so, she is on the painting bench now.

But wait and have faith, I'm making a more difficult surgery on the basis of another Hobbycraft Corsair.

Thank for the tip.

Sincerely

Corsaircorp

[corsaircorp]

Hello,

The bulge on the wing are related to the wheels used on the Aircraft.

Thank to Miggers.

The 3 spokes Wheel are far bigger than the one with 4 or 5 spokes.

Will show the result in a few days, the second wing is almost done, and the scratch is gone.

I surely would take a break in my Spitfire serie. Back to Hawker and change my mind...

My corsair's are crying for me too.

Sincerely.

Corsaircorp

[Troy Smith]

Hi CC

 

what Seafire 17 are you planning on building, and do you have any photos?  

 

I had a look through Seafire Warpaint and the 17's don't show the 47 bulge, neither do the Seafire 45 and 46's. 

this shot shows the bulge on a Seafire 17

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Seafire/MkXVII-VL105-SX336/pages/Airworthy-Seafire-MkXVII-VL105-SX336-Warbird-03.html

 

it's pretty low bulge, more like the ones on the 16 wing I showed above.

 

I'd  not trust the Airwaves nose,  also note the Airfix PR XIX has a slightly undersized spinner, and so also nose ring.

The Airfix 17 spinner is OK.

 

I'll check if the Airfix Seafire wing needs to be thinned,  it should be 7mm deep for 1/48th.

 

more later

T