336FS Mustang Blue Paint

[Boman]

The wing ID bands you refer to was applied long after D-day. Some of the aircraft involved in Operation Bodenplatte had them, together with under fuselage invasion stripes. But the practice seems to be a little random even within squadrons. 

My understanding is that they were removed in the period December 44 - January 45, with relatively great spread in time from first to last. 

[malpaso]

Good question.  The book Ducimus "Camouflage & Markings" I have is silent about after D-Day, I assume if the stripes were still there they stayed on?  Whether post D-Day arrivals were supposed to get the stripes is not mentioned clearly.

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/16-NAA-P-51-F-6/North-American-P-51-Mustang-16-11-960

Possibly Mustangs nowhere near the Normandy theatre and/or only involved in high altitude escort missions never received D-Day stripes?

 

Cheers

Will

[Boman]

D-day stripes were applied to all allied aircraft on the evening of June 5/6th - there is no doubt about that. 

The only planes not receiving these were the 4-engined bombers like B-17, B-24, Lancasters, Halifax' etc. 

 

As I wrote about removal of d-day stripes earlier you have the details on when it was applied and when it was removed. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Boman

[Andre B]

3 hours ago, Boman said:

D-day stripes were applied to all allied aircraft on the evening of June 5/6th - there is no doubt about that. 

The only planes not receiving these were the 4-engined bombers like B-17, B-24, Lancasters, Halifax' etc. 

 

As I wrote about removal of d-day stripes earlier you have the details on when it was applied and when it was removed. 

 

Yes, it seems that the use of black (or white on OD-painted ) ID-bands is rather random in time and squadrons during 1943 to 1945...

Concerning D-day markings I've read that the orders to paint their aircraft with D-day markings wasn't issued to fighter units before june the 4th.

But as there was P-51D Mustang's with D-day markings lost in may 1944 there is something strange about the dates...

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=4&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=25&Temp=603&searchString=

[Boman]

Initially when the P-51 Mustang came to Europe, the similarity to the ME-109 was enough to warrant identification stripes on wings, tailplanes and fin. 

The fin was soon painted over, but the wings and tailplanes remained, in many cases until the end of the war. 

 

The D-day stripes were only painted on June 4th, as the invasion was planned originally for June 5th but postponed until June 6th due to bad weather on the 5th. The stripes were applied cruedly at night with what was available on hand. These markings were highly secret and orders to apply them were only issued at the last possible moment. So D-day stripes by May 30th is not possible. 

 

The D-day stripes are 9" B/W/B/W/B on the P-51, and from this photo of the same plane, you can see that the spacing between the "lines" are not the same, hence I believe that what you see above the drop tank is instead colored gun panels/muzzles, coinsidentally looking like d-day markings. Millikan was a Captain when he was shot down, and most likely a flight lead wich often had colored gun muzzles as identifying feature for their flight. 

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Boman

[Andre B]

The dimensions concerning D-day band varied a lot as they where painted on rather quick with available resources. Sometimes they even was inverted depending time, available paints and understanding of issued orders...

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=352&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=78&Temp=1491

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=4&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=12&Temp=590&searchString=

[PhantomBigStu]

On 29/04/2017 at 6:13 AM, Seawinder said:

IMHO the blue nose looks awfully dark. I should have thought the label on the yogurt (?) container or the electronic device would be closer to the color.

As probably already said it is correct, the later examples were painted in raf deep sky which the blue I've used is very close to. Also to pressure propel but I would like an opinion on what do with the blue and red areas re varnish

[Andre B]

I have an idea about using Tamiya TS-44 Brilliant Blue for 472 182 or 464 153...

 

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=4&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=226&Temp=3017&searchString=

http://www.kitsworld.co.uk/index.php?EXTPICFILE=1&CATEGORY=5&SUB=7&THISPAGE=1&RADIOSORT=4&STRH=4760&ORDN=4747&STKNR=83&RNZ=829107

[bobmig]

On 11/15/2016 at 6:09 AM, PhantomBigStu said:

can of worms here but working on a 336th Mustang, and trying to figure out what shade of blue I should paint the rudder, anyone shed some light on this?

Has anyone else considered the possibility that it was simply some mid-blue from the nearest ironmonger (hardware store) to the base. Sometimes we tend to be overly technical about this stuff.

Bob

[Stonar]

18 hours ago, bobmig said:

Has anyone else considered the possibility that it was simply some mid-blue from the nearest ironmonger (hardware store) to the base. Sometimes we tend to be overly technical about this stuff.

Bob

 

Has anyone considered how well that would be likely to adhere to fairly exotic light alloys, going through a heat cycle from typical sea level temperatures to often -30 or 40 degrees centigrade, sometimes even lower? Maybe it's worth considering how the formulation of that hardware store paint would be affected by high levels of ultra violet radiation? There are reasons, and not overly technical ones, why specific aviation finishes were developed and used on aircraft and paints from the nearest ironmonger or hardware store generally were not.

Cheers

Steve

[bentwaters81tfw]

22 hours ago, Andre B said:

I have an idea about using Tamiya TS-44 Brilliant Blue for 472 182 or 464 153...

 

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=4&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=226&Temp=3017&searchString=

http://www.kitsworld.co.uk/index.php?EXTPICFILE=1&CATEGORY=5&SUB=7&THISPAGE=1&RADIOSORT=4&STRH=4760&ORDN=4747&STKNR=83&RNZ=829107

It's what I used on my B-17 assembly ship. It's probably as close as you will get to the original in a convenient modelling medium.

[bobmig]

59 minutes ago, Stonar said:

 

Has anyone considered how well that would be likely to adhere to fairly exotic light alloys, going through a heat cycle from typical sea level temperatures to often -30 or 40 degrees centigrade, sometimes even lower? Maybe it's worth considering how the formulation of that hardware store paint would be affected by high levels of ultra violet radiation? There are reasons, and not overly technical ones, why specific aviation finishes were developed and used on aircraft and paints from the nearest ironmonger or hardware store generally were not.

Cheers

Steve

I'm sure the erks sent to "get some blue paint" would never have thought of such things. Are we also saying that all the wild and wonderful colours used on nose art creations would have, of necessity, been specified, authentic paint only from official stocks? I don't think so. Anyway... I see your point, Stonar, but I was just throwing out a possible scenario which no one had raised. Personally, I have no idea where the blue paint might actually have come from.

Bob

[PhantomBigStu]

On 01/05/2017 at 5:32 PM, bobmig said:

I'm sure the erks sent to "get some blue paint" would never have thought of such things. Are we also saying that all the wild and wonderful colours used on nose art creations would have, of necessity, been specified, authentic paint only from official stocks? I don't think so. Anyway... I see your point, Stonar, but I was just throwing out a possible scenario which no one had raised. Personally, I have no idea where the blue paint might actually have come from.

Bob

Entirely possible, but as already said by others deep sky was at reported to beused on some, and I've since seen some colour photos with the blue that does look very much like deep sky. Anyway not trying to be pushy but I'd like to finish my mustang and need an opinion on what varnish to use on the blue and red areas

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

On ‎01‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 5:32 PM, bobmig said:

I'm sure the erks sent to "get some blue paint" would never have thought of such things. Are we also saying that all the wild and wonderful colours used on nose art creations would have, of necessity, been specified, authentic paint only from official stocks? I don't think so. Anyway... I see your point, Stonar, but I was just throwing out a possible scenario which no one had raised. Personally, I have no idea where the blue paint might actually have come from.

Bob

 

Ground crews reported doing exactly that discussing Don Gentile's P-51B (and the unit in general). The red paint was locally sourced at first and was a disaster - and peeled off in sheets the first couple of flights. It was redone with aircraft paint almost immediately.

 

1 hour ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Entirely possible, but as already said by others deep sky was at reported to beused on some, and I've since seen some colour photos with the blue that does look very much like deep sky. Anyway not trying to be pushy but I'd like to finish my mustang and need an opinion on what varnish to use on the blue and red areas

 

It's go with a satin finish Stu. These paints had a fairly flat finish and needed a polish to get a lustre on them - which few aircraft received because ground crews had better things to do.

[PhantomBigStu]

Cheers @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies