More on Airfix 2017

[Uncle Dick]

Me too I wanted to buy the Airfix B17 + resupply set but gave it a pass on cost grounds, I will only stick to buying the new tools for the year from now on and I will be purchasing a lot less of them in quantity than in previous years...(will give the repop re-issues a wide birth as well as i have plenty of aftermarket decals in the stash).

 

I have also started to buy a lot more second hand kits - which I did not buy much of previously...

[old thumper]

10 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

. Price is of course a very subjective issue but, the bottom line is, if I don't like the price then I just don't buy or, someone else gets my custom. If I cannot find a cheaper alternative then I just do without! Simples!.

 

Allan

 

That is very much the harsh reality of it all for a lot of us, myself included. 

[charlie_c67]

Problem is, this won't help Airfix, which puts them in more trouble, which reduces their output or ups their prices, which reduces sales and so on. An ever descending circle into trouble

[Chimpion]

3 hours ago, charlie_c67 said:

Problem is, this won't help Airfix, which puts them in more trouble, which reduces their output or ups their prices, which reduces sales and so on. An ever descending circle into trouble

I suspect they're using the increasingly common marketing strategy of differential pricing. For some people, the price isn't so important- they will willingly pay the new price to get the kit they want. Airfix will later offer the new kits at a reduced price and get the sales of those who are sensitive to the pricing. It allows them to maximize the available profit - at least, that's the theory.

 

[Modelraynz]

Will be interesting to see the outcome of the board meeting that's this week I believe.

 

Some thoughts from in the retail space down under:

 

The new airfix series 1 and 2 series range were good movers down here in NZ across a wide range of modelers, but espically with kids and casual enthusiasts.  Historically airfix had good pricing  but the "historical molding quality " would lead to them not being reccomended to beginners. then their new tools (p-40b, spit, zero, mustang) really found a perfect balance: great packaging to grab the eye, well engineered, and a lot of detail. - cheap enough for the casual consumer, detailed and accurate enough for the enthusiast to stock up on em'  - we saw a lot of our regulars buying 2x or more of these kits for the stash, basis for conversions etc.

 

Was a pity to see the 262 jump into the next series, where atleast here it will compete with the academy offering.

 

Likewise the lack of new "baseline" kits for their series 1 and 2 range is dissapointing; new tool p-47, f6f, 109g,mc202? ( standard 'big' ww2 types) would have broad market appeal and do strongly overseas, not to mention the reboxing potential - which it seems they might be picking up on from the likes of hasegawa (though could get a bit more creative on markings). 

 

To me one of airfix's stregnths are their back catalog of molds, they really should tap into some of their stronger kits of yesteryear: p-80s, meteors, super mysteres, doing a run of these with their modern packaging and some interesting decals would be a guranteed win withput the heavy upfront cost of tooling.

 

Two of the more dissapointing product ranges here:

- pallets of the 'operation herric' range that were impossible to move, playing pingpong between wholesaler and retailers (ditto for swordfish and lancasters)

-  the quickbuild range that has to be sold around ~40nzd, pricing it out of casual toys for kids territory; cant remeber who we blue pilled to get rid of those.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

[Modelraynz]

Update: according to  this retailer: http://www.mrmodels.co.nz/kitset-model-pages/aircraft-72_Acad-Air.html#Airfix

 

The following product lines are being deleted:

 

1/72

DH Tiger Moth Civil

Gloster Gladiator Mk.1

PreWar - Hurricaine MK1 (reeeeaaallly hoping thyre doing a II family based on this tooling)

Fouga Magister

Bristol Blenheim Mk1 (Bomber

Harrier Gr9

EE Lightning F2A/6

Dornier DO17Z

EE Lightning F6

Short Sunderland III 

Douglas DC-3C Dakota

Avro Shackleton MR.2

 

1/48

Supermarine Spitfire PRXlX 

Messerscmitt BF109E-1/E-3/E-4 

Hawk T1

Folland Gnat

Hawker Hurricane MK1

 

1/24

Fw-190

 

 

 

[Andre B]

For sure Airfix has "reboxing potential" in some of their older kits/moulds. Kits of the Dassault Super Mystere F2, F-84F Thunderstreak and even the F-86D Sabre are still nice kits and with a good choise of decals they can be built into eyecatching models. And what about the DH Mosquto NF.XIX, the Douglas A-1 Skyraider and the Bristol Bulldog? Maybe the Mirage III? And the F-105 F or G Thunderchief? How good or bad was that kit (never seen one)?

 

/André

 

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/Airfix_1_72_North_American_F_86D_Sabre_02061__about4753.html

[charlie_c67]

This is where they can learn from say Hobbyboss and Academy. "Simple" fewer piece snap-fit or easy build models with more moulded parts based upon their original designs, but keeping the higher detail models as well for those who wish. Kind of like they do with their railway section.

[Wez]

3 hours ago, Andre B said:

For sure Airfix has "reboxing potential" in some of their older kits/moulds. Kits of the Dassault Super Mystere F2, F-84F Thunderstreak and even the F-86D Sabre are still nice kits and with a good choise of decals they can be built into eyecatching models. And what about the DH Mosquto NF.XIX, the Douglas A-1 Skyraider and the Bristol Bulldog? Maybe the Mirage III? And the F-105 F or G Thunderchief? How good or bad was that kit (never seen one)?

 

/André

 

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/Airfix_1_72_North_American_F_86D_Sabre_02061__about4753.html

 

The Super Mystere is a great kit however, it has raised lines which are disliked by many (but easily rescribed), I have high hopes for the forthcoming Special Hobby kit.  The last time I bought the F-86D or the F-84F, it was evident the moulds are worn, the F-86 wasn't as crisp and the F-84F moulding was losing some detail/definition (particularly on the wheels), again both have raised lines.  The Hasegawa F-86D is a lovely, simple kit but pricey and seldom seen.  We could do with a good, modern F/RF-84F in 1/72nd.

 

The F-105 was knocked into a cocked hat by the Monogram effort, both have raised line details but the Monogram kit is beautifully detailed, something the Airfix kit was lacking in comparison.

 

The Mosquito XIX was based on their earlier NF.II/FB.VI/FB.XVIII, a competent kit but surpassed by the Tamiya kit.

 

The Skyraider looks tired against the Hasegawa kit, but then, the Hasegawa kit si much more expensive.

 

I would love to see the Bristol Bulldog re-released, it's a good kit with plenty of eye-catching colour schemes.

 

As for the Mirage III, that really is a tired mould, I would love Airfix to release a new Mirage III/5 (preferably not the C version, the E/5 based versions offer more colour schemes), it is unlikely in the current climate though.

 

Airfix have been rightly criticised for trotting out old and tired moulds, fortunately they have replaced some of those subjects.  People don't like paying current prices for old moulds, they feel conned but all manufacturers do this to some degree.  Perhaps if they marketed them as "Vintage" kits it might work but then again, they may just be shooting themselves in the foot

[Seahawk]

3 hours ago, Andre B said:

For sure Airfix has "reboxing potential" in some of their older kits/moulds. Kits of the Dassault Super Mystere F2, F-84F Thunderstreak and even the F-86D Sabre are still nice kits and with a good choise of decals they can be built into eyecatching models. And what about the DH Mosquto NF.XIX, the Douglas A-1 Skyraider and the Bristol Bulldog? Maybe the Mirage III? And the F-105 F or G Thunderchief? How good or bad was that kit (never seen one)?

 

/André

 

 

Wouldn't argue against many of those (to which I'd add SH-2F Sea Sprite) though the Mosquito and Skyraider have been surpassed.  But the Mirage III?  Never in a thousand years: waaay below current standards of acceptability.  Mirage F.1 is tolerable though again Hasegawa have it beat - at a price.

[Andre B]

I knew that good Sabre F-86D, Skyraiders and Mosquitos has been made by Tamiya and Hasegawa. But they are not cheap when they are found. And one can almost get two or three Airfix kits for the price of one Tamiya or Hasegawa. So I think there still is a place for the Airfix Sabre-Dog, Skyraider and Mosquito nightfighter. And concerning the Dassault Super Mustere there is for sure place. Yes, I've got it. It is for sure still an nice kit...

 

Cheers...

André

[old thumper]

Some may complain about the old moulds, but some of us like them.

I like the idea of marketing the old moulds as vintage kits, that should suit both camps.

I think Airfix could make a bit of money from re-releasing certain old moulds but not enough to solve their problems.  

[Rabbit Leader]

I agree with a future 'Airfix Vintage' program and although I'm not in business myself, do think that I know a little bit about this hobby to know what might work.   

You only need to study the various online auction sites to understand which kits would prove popular and which ones would not.

 

There's no need to redesign kit boxes or instructions, just use the old instructions (with a probable correction sheet for Humbrol paint numbers) and roll out the old Series 4 boxes with great Roy Cross artwork. Where the Red "new" star on some kits once was, replace this with the words "Vintage kit". These vintage kits really need to be differentiated from the new mould kit red boxes, so going back to the retro 70's boxes would be cheap and kind-of nostalgic for us old timers at the same time

 

Ideally, I would suggest that a little effort be spent with replacing old canopies and printing new decal sheets; however we are not totally designing a new kit so hopefully the time outlaid to get these old kits to market would be significantly lower than the new moulds are taking. I also 100% agree with others here - the key to a "Vintage" programs success is price. There's no point rolling out the old Fouga Magister, then expecting us to pay up to 15 quid for it.

 

I spend too many hours of my life working in the airline industry rather than spending enough hours on the modelling bench. For a while now, Airlines have adopted a two pronged approach, with both premium product and one for the leisure conscious traveler. I realise that some have failed miserably, however other Airline groups have thrived as well.

Eduard (with their Weekender series) seem to do this well, and I cannot see why Airfix with its large back catalogue of kits could not do something similar with some of its better old moulds. 

 

We all know about the kitstarter program, however I believe the hefty initial offering and the lack of ability to buy these kits unless you purchased directly through Airfix themselves was a real turn off to many potential buyers out there, especially outside the UK where Airfix postage prices are not in-line with other retailers.

 

So let's trial just one kit, say the 1/72 F-80C Shooting Star, box it old style, price it accordingly and see where this venture ends up!

 

Just my thoughts to re-coup some handy funds into the Airfix / Hornby coffers..

Cheers... Dave     

 

 

[charlie_c67]

For all this discussion, one thing to remember, Airfix is doing quite well if I've read things correctly. It's Corgi, Scalextrix and Hornby Railways that've struggled and caused the company problems. Part of this will be down to using the same factory in China that your rival uses and partly (if not totally) uses.... 

[Modelraynz]

Ah the magister...anybody want 20+ for around that 15 quid price plus shipping?

 

Yea, diddnt think so 

 

Good point that airfix is suffering  for hornbys losses in other areas: i really hope they're consolidating boxings to produce multiple variants  e.g. iirc the new spit va has al the parts for an early mk 1 with watts prop?

[old thumper]

The old Airfix B-26 Marauder is one kit that I would expect to still be able to make money.

[Andre B]

Concerning cheap conversions and new kits (for Airfix)...

Is it possible to make an F-86D by using most of the parts from the F-.86 E/F(M) (A 03082) just by making a new "nose" and/or fuselage halves?
Are those wings also usefull for an F-86D or... ?

 

/André

[Wez]

1 hour ago, Andre B said:

Concerning cheap conversions and new kits (for Airfix)...

Is it possible to make an F-86D by using most of the parts from the F-.86 E/F(M) (A 03082) just by making a new "nose" and/or fuselage halves?
Are those wings also usefull for an F-86D or... ?

 

/André

 

Short answer no.

 

Longer answer, F-86E(M)/F wings are 6"-3" wings of greater chord, fixed leading edge with a fence, F-86D wings would be standard chord wings with leading edge slats.  Totally different.

 

Additionally, F-86D is not merely an F-86E/F with a radar nose, the whole fuselage was redesigned and more portly, the aircraft was going to be designated the F-95 but avoided being chopped because of the commonality it shared with the day fighter version (which was actually only 25%).

 

A better option for the current kit would be the original slat wing, add the early windscreen and you can make plenty of early E's/Sabre F.2 and Sabre F.4 (standard windscreen).

 

 

[Giorgio N]

The Airfix F-86D was a nice kit for its days, may still be acceptable today but judging by the seemingly small production of the Hasegawa kit I wonder what success this kit may have ?
Nothing against the Mosquito, one of Airfix's best from those days.

The F-105, the A-1 and the Mirage III though ? None of these is a good kit, the Mirage and Skyraider are also ancient and better consigned to History. The F-105 was one of the most disappointing kits of the year when it was issued, being a type with a relatively small following anyway it would make little sense to reissue this.

The Skyraider is covered in rivets, a pig to build and features absolutely no detail. I've actually bought one recently, but one thing is buying an old kit for a fiver at a swap meet, another story would be to pay the kind of money asked for a new Series 2 kit.. assuming that Airfix would keep the old series and not up the price to a Series 3 kit.

The Mirage.. oh dear ! IIRC it was the first ever Mirage III kit and is almost as old as the original aircraft. Sure looks like a Mirage III, at least for modellers who've never seen a picture of a true Mirage III, but that's all that can be said for this kit.

The F-80 mentioned above on the other hand would be a kit deserving a reissue, but again I'm not sure of how much interest an F-80 can raise today

[Albeback52]

On ‎18‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 3:08 PM, old thumper said:

The old Airfix B-26 Marauder is one kit that I would expect to still be able to make money.

No argument here. I  am very surprised that this has never seen the light of day since the last reissue (1986). It can still be picked up for reasonable second hand prices though. I got a couple from Kingkit recently for £16.99 each. Certainly get a lot in the box for that money. Despite its age, it's still a very good kit and probably one of Airfix's best of the period. I would also, personally like to see the F-84 Thunderstreak, F-80C , F-86D, F2H Banshee and Mystere B2 up for reissue.  I also have 4 Airfix F4D-1 Skyray kits. I know the rivet counters don't like this one but, it's a very neatly moulded model that goes together beautifully. Good enough for me but, with the lovely Tamiya kits available, I don't reckon the Airfix kit will be reissued. I've also got a couple of Dornier Do 17E/F kits. Another very nice 70s era model. I am surprised though that Airfix have never retooled their ancient Phantom although, perhaps that may change now that we have the new FG1 kit to look forward to.

 

 

I would certainly support the idea about marketing them as "vintage kits". However, pricing would be an issue. The afore mentioned Fouga magister is a case in point. Nice model though it is (I have four of them too!!) I wouldn't pay £15 for them. In fact, I paid about £7 each for them! I certainly won't pay 2017 series 2 or 3 prices for a 70s series 2 or 3 kit. I think I paid 65p for the B-26 in 1974!!. Happy days!

 

Allan

Edited April 19, 2017 by Albeback52

[Giorgio N]

13 minutes ago, Albeback52 said:

 

I would certainly support the idea about marketing them as "vintage kits". However, pricing would be an issue. The afore mentioned Fouga magister is a case in point. Nice model though it is (I have four of them too!!) I wouldn't pay £15 for them. In fact, I paid about £7 each for them! I certainly won't pay 2017 series 2 or 3 prices for a 70s series 2 or 3 kit. I think I paid 65p for the B-26 in 1974!!. Happy days!

 

Allan

 

You've hit on one of the problems with "vintage editions": similar exercises from other manufacturers in the past have seen the kits issued as more expensive than the current kits ! In a sense it also makes sense as any new edition will require a new box and new decals to be printed and the presence of any new item in the catalogue has an impact on the logistics. If this extra cost is spread over a standard production run, no problem. If the extra cost is spread over a smaller run then the unit cost invariably goes up to retain the same margins.

Now would modellers pay an extra for a reissue of a vintage Airfix kit ? Guess it would depend on the kit. And this brings more things to consider..

The Super Mystere for example, was a nice kit for its days and a reissue would be welcome by some. However there's already a superior kit of the type on the market so it's likely that the fans of the French fighter may look at this one. At the same time the SM can't really be considered an "iconic Airfix kit" so it's unlikely to attract collectors and generic Airfix enthusiasts. So what is the market niche that such a kit can hope to capture ? SM fans with not enough money to buy a better kit... hmmm, not sure the potential market would be large enough to make financial sense.

All this means that the subjects chosen for a "vintage edition" would have to be either those that are not currently covered by the competition (something that Italeri for example has done a few times) or those that have some historical significance.

 

If on the other hand the idea is to launch a "low cost" brand of Airfix, then these old kits would have two problems:

One of external competition: Eduard's weekend range is indeed very successful but these kits are top quality. Airfix could not dare promoting their low cost brand against a similar competition, the kits would not be good enough.

One maybe even more important of internal competition: the low cost products would end up taking away market shares from the newer products and if the former are sold at a lower price, then overall this would be a loss for the company. This phenomenon is called cannibalization in marketing and is something every company is very aware of. Cannibalization can be accepted only if leads to a large expansion of the market base, otherwise is avoided.

 

In the meantime, where does this leave all those modellers who would love to build some of the old Airfix classics for sentimental reasons or because they don't want to fork out plenty of cash for short run kits of the same subjects ? Simple, keep checking the stalls at model shows, swap meets and flea markets ! Check the sale section of your favourite modelling forum. And check the websites of a couple of second hand kit vendors. I'm sure that everybody's favourite OOP Airfix kit can be found in one of these ways

[Ratch]

I wonder where you guys were when Airfix did their Kitstarter experiment. Hardly a resounding success.

[Wez]

7 minutes ago, Ratch said:

I wonder where you guys were when Airfix did their Kitstarter experiment. Hardly a resounding success.

I was there, when the subjects interested me however, these were vintage kits but but not exactly cheap, possibly the reason for the failure of the experiment.

[Rabbit Leader]

Kit Starter - slap on 30 quid international postage to the already overpriced base kit. 

 

Q. So where was I?

A. As far away as possible !! 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[janneman36]

@Ratch

I tried to convince them to sell me a big stash of beavers for in our ipms club but as rabbit leader already stated this was impossible due to the overseas shipping cost of 30 quid each...and you couldn't buy more then 5 i think.

I wrote a mail to Airfix to convince them to do otherwise and never got an answer, i could have sold at least two dozen of these kits at a non profit base of course.

I think this was a lost opportunity to sell more i think..i could be wrong

There was a lot of interest in our dutch ipms chapter for this kit as we the RNLAF flew a few of them....but that shipping cost!!

Edited April 20, 2017 by janneman36
info added