Hannes Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Dear Harvey, I agree with Roy .However ,the scratchbuild of the frotal parts with the tubes coming out of the cylinder head is a interesting task. In my opinion a hole should be drilled for every tube.Maybe copper cables wih synthetic isolation could be used for that purpose? Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 22 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said: But I thought you were going to show the car pre-race? I don't think there were any bandages then. I might change my mind again by the time I start to build this! Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) I think I have never been so close from the real body shape on this left side. I used my Mac book tools to compare precisely the 2 photos. First of all, you must try to get the same angle and the same scale. Then you use the "rods" (different colors) that you can curve and you put them on the real 806. Then you transpose to your kit. If it coincides, it must be quite good. I used this method too for my fairing. Step by step, you get the good shape. Notice that I colored my plastic card just with Stabilo Boss, to avoid the too white color. I did the same for the rear cap behind the seat,, colored in black with a marker. All what may help you to see well must be done. Notice that I sanded, on this left side, my fairing limit, that was wrong. Notice too the important plastic card adding, while I had ever done a first adding, long ago before my body cutting. Edited December 21, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph correction 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 That looks fantastic Olivier! Great job! Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said: I think I have never been so close from the real body shape on this left side. I used my Mac book tools to compare precisely the 2 photos. First of all, you must try to get the same angle and the same scale. Then you use the "rods" (different colors) that you can curve and you put them on the real 806. Then you transpose to your kit. If it coincides, it must be quite good. I used this method too for my fairing. Step by step, you get the good shape. Notice that I colored my plastic card just with Stabilo Boss, to avoid the too white color. I did the same for the rear cap behind the seat,, colored in black with a marker. All what may help you to see well must be done. Notice that I sanded, on this left side, my fairing limit, that was wrong. Notice too the important plastic card adding, while I had ever done a first adding, long ago before my body cutting. It's a fantastic job you did Olivier, but it's still not achieved, IMHO ! Indeed, the 3 louvers on the left rear side, before the rear axle level, need to be move lightly forward and upward...don't you think so ? A little effort more, and you will catch the truth Edited December 21, 2016 by CrazyCrank 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Dear Olivier, Thierry is right,because one photo shows only a part of the truth and the human eye can be betrayed easily. So it is necessary to look at different photos to unravel the real form . Even for a sculptor it´s not easy to find the truth with an limited amount of informations. So hang all relevant photos on your wall and try to imagine the form from different angles! Maybe you also have to change neighboring parts,like the fairing to achieve that goal! But:you are on the right way and we all admire your work! Hannes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 Mainly, try making a photo of your work from a distance of 2 to 3 meter or something. That way lens distortion will minimized. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) B... hell! You are right, CC (as usual...). I am gonna correct that... The plastic card added changes everything! Edited December 21, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph add 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Still a lot of work to do, but things go on (too slowly, to my taste)... On the first photo, CC will notice the correction done for the left side louvres. I have been working (filling and sanding) on this side. The frame hasn't been yet cutted (so many things to do...) On this second photo, the body under the fairing scratch made, now OK, made from 0,5 mm plastic card. P.S: the photos were taken at around 1 m distance, difficult for me to make them from farer... and they would lose definition. Edited December 21, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph add 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Dear Olivier,that´s funny ,I´m doing just the same what you are doing now,changig the body under the fairing.Because I cut my body at it´s front,not in the middle as you did (main reason: I deal with a metal part) I had to elongate this sheet. The right side looks very convincing for me,The left side still has to be connected with the rest of the bodywork.This way you will get a better impression how the body looked like after the fairing. It´s very interesting to imagine the body´s form without the fairing.(the kit´s solution is wrong as usual imho) Unfortunately we only have photo 3 and this does not show the whole situation Many greetings! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 For the left side, you are right, Hannes. Pity, the seat is hiding us this connection with the body, but it is obvious that I must improve that. It's a pity that you can't post photos... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Dear Olivier ,I´m not yet advanced as you are because I just glued the main elongation with 2K glue and have to wait some hours until I can go on by adding new sheets on both sides . Of course I will send pics,when this work is done to show my fairing and this altered body part. I´m also not yet completely sure ,how the body on the left side really looked like. In situations like this it´s vey often a trial and error procedure till I´m happy with the result. I always try to look at many photos to understand the situation in 3D. Because I dont want to show wrong solutions I try to do my best first to achieve a convincing result first and this may include more deliberations and further research. Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 As much as I can see this must be a much wider arch if you look from above compared with the kit´s narrow arch. Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 About Photo 9. It can be purchased for 35 euro. For more information please contact Ms Patrizia Piccini of Fototeca Gilardi ([email protected]). You will have to make clear that you will only use this photo for modeling purposes and that you will not share it with anyone else. What you get is a picture that is 2.660x2.000 pixels, about 2mb. in size and shows nice details. Description: - Bordino's face was captured very nicely. I think Olivier would want to have this picture for the purpose of replicating Bordino's looks in his figure. - Oil or dirt spots on Bordino's suit and cap. - Bandages around exhaust: 95% sure. I would be extremely surprised if my eyes / brain deceived me here. - Left hand side fairing curvature can be seen very well. - Although still not perfect, this picture provides the best view on the wheel-suspension connection of all our photos. - It seems that the damage on the right hand side grille cover extends downward, all along the right side of the grille. I think Bordino hit one of the other cars' tails during the first race. It is remarkable that the front beam (where the frame rails start) was not affected, nor was the chrome grille strip. The latter was perhaps replaced or straightened after the first race. I cannot guarantee for 100% that there was actual any damage or that we only see rainy shadows of people looking at the car from the right side (behind the camera). But I think the chances are about 70% that there was indeed damage. - I can still see no brand name on the tyres. Would I advise you to purchase the picture? As with the video it depends on what you're looking for. I want to have as much as possible in my collection and I'm happy with the photo. To me it doesn't disappoint. The focus of the photographer was clearly on Bordino. The resolution is nice (for example the number of grille spokes can be counted) but some parts are inevitably out of focus (mainly the right hand front wheel and the area immediately behind that). I'd recommend anyone who is eagerly interested in the above subjects (as well as to completists) to purchase the picture. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Dear Roy,that´s amazing news for me! I always wanted a high -res version of that photo. Was it hard to get this photo? Does Ms.Picinni understand English? This could be a christmas present to myself. Many thanks! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 Her English is excellent per e-mail, verbally it is average. It took me a few weeks to get the photo, including negotiations on the price for you guys. But now that we have the price set, it will be easy. Just contact her. You can pay the amount of 35 euro here: Fototeca Gilardi snc Banca Popolare di Sondrio, Ag. 5 Milano - Italy IBAN: IT79X0569601604000007835X02 BIC: POSOIT22 Meanwhile just send her an e-mail telling her your name, address and use (=modeling the Fiat 806), promising that you won't share the photo with anyone else. After receipt of the money she will send you the photo per e-mail. I paid on the 19th of December in the morning and received the photo on the 21st of December in the afternoon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Thanks a lot dear Roy,I´m conviced the photo will be very valuable for my construction! Many greetings! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 @Hannes I think you won't regret purchasing the photo. I'm happy to have it. Don't overestimate its usability however, as described above. Something different... Autodromo Nazionale Monza has its own museum along with a bank of images and videos. I sent them an e-mail asking them if there are any 1927 Grand Prix (and specifically Fiat 806)- related photos or even videos in their archive. I'll keep you updated of any news. Website says they will be open from July, but I expect they will respond to e-mails anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Thank you Roy for all that! Was it common to wrap like that the exhaust pipes? has it ever been seen on another car? On the purchasing, I am obviously very tempted but I have my own concern on 2 points: 1) I don't like the idea someone takes advantage of our interest to make money by just providing 1 photo by email, especially when I see the amount of fascinating infos, docs, photos you get reading Sebastien's book, very beautiful and in fact not much more expensive than this single photo. 2) I don't know yet what kind of document I will publish, but if this photo is really so interesting, I will want to include it. What would be the price then? I don't know, but I can ask her. I am waiting for Sebastien's reply about questions I asked him (email sent 3 days ago). I could ask him his point of view regarding the assumptions on wrapped exhaust, and also on the dustup with another pilot during the tests... Your idea about Monza museum is maybe a very good clue... Let's hope it will! Edited December 22, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph add 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) I was afraid for my floor, knowing I could not just cut the rails. I remembered there was a little screw (11) that assembled the floor at the step 4. I unscrewed it and, good surprise, I could put down the floor, what made my "surgery" more easy. I will take advantage of this cutting to rework some details, like the leaf springs stands. Edited December 22, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph add 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, Hannes said: Because I dont want to show wrong solutions I try to do my best first to achieve a convincing result first and this may include more deliberations and further research Dear Hannes, I understand, on this, we don't have exactly the same approach. I don't mind showing my mistakes, and all the quest to get the final result, because, for me, it is the reality of my build. I often regret that modelers just show their result (I don't say that for you), without explaining how they got it. That said, it is a fact that, if every modeler did the same than me, the thread would not be 41 pages but 150 at least!! In the fact, we have reached and even exceeded the 40 pages threshold, what do we do? We stop?? Personally, I will have - with regrets - to leave my Fiat tomorrow for 10 days because of a holiday travel. Obviously, I take my Macbook with me and I will follow the thread from the USA where I will be with my family. I will try to re-read it, it will be funny and interesting to see our progress... Edited December 22, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph add 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 8 hours ago, Hannes said: ´m also not yet completely sure ,how the body on the left side really looked like. In situations like this it´s vey often a trial and error procedure till I´m happy with the result. I checked my left side with photo 7, other view angle, and it's good too on this. I think photo 4 and 7 are up to now the main docs we have to make ourselves a good idea of this left side. 8 hours ago, Hannes said: As much as I can see this must be a much wider arch if you look from above compared with the kit´s narrow arch Not sure of what you mean here. You are talking about the body under the fairing on left side, aren't you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Olivier, You clearly don't have a problem with being decisive. Bravo. We have a phrase for a rogue used car that comprises the back of one car and the front of another - "cut and shut". Your poor 806 looks very much in that style at the moment. At least the floor survived. Have a great break Nick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Thank you very much Dear Nick. Yes, this car, it's all the rage! and I must have a pretty big faith to make such decisions, but I have no choice, if I want my build to reproduce quite accurately our car. My wife is not unhappy me to leave my build for that travel, she can't understand that, with it, I travel in Turin, at Fiat factory, at Milano in Monza circuit and above all in the time, in 1927!! As Roy said, 90 years after her birth (and death, pity...), I will probably be the first to restore to this car her original shape. This deserves the amazing efforts I make for this build. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) I am in the check and adjustment of my cut frame and underbody with my cut body, first without the engine, both sides: On the 2nd photo, a little adjustment is still necessary (red arrow). Waiting her to get her wheels and bonnets, I think my 806, like that, looks like a shrimp. I call her affectionately "my shrimp"... Edited December 22, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph correction 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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