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Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds


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Chaps,

 

That sounds like a plan. I'll post as progress allows.

 

Roy, thanks for replacing a very outdated pick with something a little closer to right.

 

Luca, as the others have said, "Welcome"

 

Seasons Greetings to all

 

Nick

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BITDvJ.jpg

 

 

kViX8K.jpg

 

 

Merry Christmas to all !

 

This year I won´t tell a fairy tale ,the old photos will tell their own story .

Our hero Bordino was only 24 of age when the second photo was shot  ( 1911 )

 

In the background we can see the Zetland Hotel in Saltburn by the Sea . Bordino drove all the way from Brooklands near London to the northeast coast on public roads .

He achieved a land speed record on the beach course .

 

If we close our eyes we can see this fire-spitting red monster driving through small villages and scaring honest citizens .

The number plate is somewhat deformed and I hope Bordino did not hit any animals ...

 

The co-driver was an Englishman named George Scales who worked in Italy .

 

A personal remark :Christmas is the right time for repairing broken relationships .I´m aware that there is more than one culprit in the most cases if something went wrong .

My wish is to return to a normal relationship with Roy who has done a lot for our common issue .

If there´s no peace on earth we should be peaceful in our small community at least .

 

Have a wonderful time with your families , friends and animals !      Hannes

 

 

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Thanks again, Hannes. I am at Brussels now, for family trip. As usual, I was a bit sad to leave my workbench (4 days), but so glad we can see our daughter and his boy friend, who now live here.

I have a lot of fun with my new build, but I miss all of you, I must say.

I was very glad to have news from vontrips recently, even if sad to see he was banished for several months from Brit. He unstuck all his stamps at once (I don't know if this sounds clear, in french we say "décoller tous ses timbres d'un coup" to express that he had accumulated a justifiable resentment towards the ingratitude and narrow-mindedness of some members). 

I wonder what Robin Lous has become. Is he O.K? Did he finish his very nice build?

I would be pleased to have news from Black Knight too...

I remember with nostalgia the little quizz I had suggested to you around 1 year ago. We had a real dream team, and had so much fun with this research...

We can be proud for the the work we have done for truth, all together. 

A totally selfless research, just to satisfy our curiosity and to honor the men who gave so much for their brand, Fiat.

When I see that the actual PDG, great grand son of G. Agnelli, even did not reply to me who sent him photos and links to our thread, it is pathetic...

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The reason why  we almost did not get any support by the Italian side could be possibly founded in the fact that they tried to build a replica but -as it seems - with no success . On page 6 on this thread there is a discussion in an automotive forum in 2003  , published by Sam . An 806 IIRC was partial built under camouflaging conditions  ,licensed by Fiat and constructed  for an unknown person .The chassis should had been completed and the Centro Storico was supposed to provide detail plans ! Of course I don´t know what is wrong or right , but I guess it would be very shameful for Fiat if a handful of modelers would be successful regarding a reconstruction and the great company is not ! Nick should watch out  not to get copied regarding his virtual model !

Many greetings !  Hannes

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I admit I am a bit septical about this assumption. Maybe I am wrong but I am afraid Fiat is just not very concerned by this old race car and by their history (maybe they would prefer to forget it, what would be very understandable...)

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There were rumours  that Montezemolo was interested in that build . He was president of Fiat  / Ferrari and fired in 2014 . . It´s possible that he was the unknown person .

These car enthusiasts  from 2003 are probably still online . Maybe we can find them and ask .  Hannes

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Hannes,

 

Great picture. The car is insane.

 

On the subject of replica, it's going to take more than 4 pictures and 4 drawings to resurrect this machine. Kind though you are about my drawings they are a way off being complete. Following Oliviers' lead, Harvey and yourself are the closest to a bottom up build of the beast.

 

Nick

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I think this is new: 

 

Quote

Fiat who had entered in every Grand Prix race (with the exception of 1913), from 1906-25, had taken almost no part in the 1,5-litre formula of 1926-27, although their racing department had been busy constructing twelve-cylinder cars with both two-stroke and four-stroke engines.

 

In 1928 work on these was abandoned and the cars were put into storage.

 

(From: 'The Grand Prix Car', Laurence Pomeroy, 1st edition 1949)

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I wasn´t connected with britmodeller in the last two days and I´still don´t know why . Firewall problems perhaps ..

Dear Roy , the 451 2-stroke engine is still a mystery for me . On page 183 on this thread I published the 2 known drawings .

It shows an 12-cylinder double  in-line engine with 6 hanging pistons .I wonder why Zerbi constructed an very high engine whilst the rest of the car was  very low . Maybe the height of this  engine was  the reason for the sandwiching measure ?

For the 451 engine   cam fairings  would not make any sense but most likely the bonnets topline  must had been situated higher .

It´s an odd construction and as far as I know it was not repeated in engine construction´s history .

A mechanic became deaf during the test runs  . In my opinion the 451 engine was a failure construction from the beginning  and I guess Agnelli was not amused .

Many greetings !   Hannes

 

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Some days ago I ordered Cyril Posthumus´book  :  "The roaring twenties , an album of early motor racing ."

Some details are interesting . Benoist  , although entered for the formula libre race  (  Milan Grand Prix ), had elected not to run .

I quote : " That way Delage evaded possible defeat , and Fiat wound up their magnificent racing career with a final win .Three of the new Fiat " 12 " s were entered for the British Grand Prix - an intoxicating prospect , although of course they non-started .Only one car was ever actually built , and legend , unconfirmed , has it that Fiat chief Agnelli , returning from a long American tour , was furious at the work put in to the racing car at a time when the economic depression was already being felt, and ordered it to be broken up , together with all spares and patterns . Certainly no car or parts ever survived ."

The last sentence is not correct because an 406 engine part survived as we can see in the Rogliatti article .

Agnelli´s America journey indicates that I´m possibly not too far away from the truth regarding my theory you can read above .

I´m convinced that he was impressed by the American mass-producers and was not far-sighted enough to see the benefits from racing sports for normal car developments . The decicions of that time last till our days  , not only in Europe.

Many greetings !  Hannes

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  • 2 months later...

Our great thread seems to be dead , but a small candle of life is still burning . We found out a lot but there are  still unanswered questions .

One of them was the origin of the master model in the Centro Storico .

In an old book of mine  ( Modellautos aus eigener Hand , 1969 ) I found 3 Fiat models for the Centro Storico in  1: 5 scale .

They were made by the company of the Morselli brothers .

I never heared of them and unfortunately I also could not find anything in the net .

The crucial question , which drawing was the foundation for this model ( drawing 1 imho ) and what kind of informations were given by Fiat remains unanswered .

But as it seems our  806 master model was made in 1 : 5 and not in 1 : 6 .

Conti preferred the 1 : 10 scale , that´s why I think , the model in the CS was made by the brothers Morselli .

I´ll show some photos today .

Many greetings !  Hannes

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Dear Hannes,

I would be pleased to see your progress on the Fiat 806, why don't you go on posting on this thread (or another, to your convenience)? I suppose you must not be so far from the end of your build now...

On my side, the progress is slow because of a lot of research and discovers about the P-51D, as we did on the Fiat. I learnt a lot of things, as I did for the Fiat. Model making opens so many doors, and creates the occasion to learn a lot on many matters...

I was on holiday last week, and so, I couldn't go on, but I have found back my workbench and, with the new infos concerning especially the rivets question (that will recall some other rivets question to you...), I will be able to go on very soon...

 

Many greetings

Olivier

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Dear Olivier , that´s a very good suggestion and I will follow  your advice . In the last  months I was sick  but now I´m in a much better condition

and I will continue with my construction . I´ve been watching  your thread and I can see that very professional members are on your side and that´s great and I´m happy about that . Harvey made great progresses as well  and I´m sure that the topic " 806 "will have it´s revival .

Sam´s new thread regarding the Mef is also interesting , so have a look ! 

All the best , my friend !     Hannes

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