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Roy vd M.

Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds

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Olivier is the paint going off the spokes ? Or is it intentional ?

 

I am asking because i am respiking the wheels and will apply a very thin primer before the black coat on the metal spokes.

 

Personally i think you have posted much better pictures of your car.

 

Here the shine on the body does not look like natural patina anymore and the gloves of the driver look very shiny as well to me reducing further the "scale modeling" - "museum quality"  i would think you are looking for. Is this  high shine/gloss level intentional ? 

 

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Issam,

no, the paint is not going off the spokes, this patina effect was intentional, giving a metal look to the spokes.

I did not apply any primer, personally, but you can decide to apply one.

What photos are you talking about, much better than these ones? (just tell me on what page I will find them)

Personally, I love these ones and all the ones I made finally on the black cardboard, but of course, you have your own opinion that I respect.

I am using Lightroom 6 PS from less than 1 month and I have probably still a lot to learn (there are so many tools...). In particular, I don’t know how to reduce the shining on a detail as the gloves, fe, that are with these features a bit too bright indeed.

I look forward to see the Juan Manuel post prod version of these photos, I should get them soon... 

Maybe the result is too gloss, it is a question of taste, I can decrease that of course, but you know the Lafontaine fable « le meunier, son fils et l’âne », there will always be someone to tell me I should do differently...

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John!!! I missed you so much! where have you been all this time?? 

I don't forget that it is thanks to you that I got these great tires.

Thanks a lot for your kind words, you are a real friend!

About the P 51D, I expected a quite simple build, but the last and great docs we got will push me on "surgeries" again while I am just working on the cockpit!! 

Do you have a thread dedicated to your 1/24 version?

 

Cheers

 

Olivier

 

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Chaps,

 

Just wanted to wish all who shared in and contributed to the fun on this thread through the year. I think I have uncovered some information that might shed some light on the reason. Agnelli killed the car.

 

As you can see below, it appears that at the end of 1927, the car was used at the Christmas party with Bodino in a starring role. Clearly he was not the only one unhappy with turn of events as Agnelli subsequently ordered the car destroyed to avoid such frivolity in the future

 

PS it also confirms that the car was painted Santa Red!

Christmas Bordino

 

With extreme apologies to the great man.

 

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year to All

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

Clearly I have found a new free toy to play with - Krita

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Thanks so much, Nick! Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you too, my friend!

And thanks for this pic! are you sure this drawing was done end of 1927?

Anyway, we know the car was destroyed in 1928, I regret that, despite all my will, we still don't know with certainty the precise date of that death.

I wrote to John Elkann, the actual Fiat Chrysler PDG, sending him  photos of my build and a nice letter, in which I asked him if he could help us somehow or other (he is the Giovanni Agnelli's great grandson). Pity, I didn't get any reply from this VIP... 

 

P.S: sorry, I canceled accidently some photos, wanting to increase Image Schack, coming more and more slow (so many pics...). 

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Dear Nick ! Many thanks for the most convincing Santa Claus I ever saw ! And this is a real Coca Cola car with cocaine in the petrol !:D

Serious again : We all owe you a lot and you always knew about the right dimensions . Many thanks for that !

I want to add some deliberations regarding Agnelli´s decision . Besides the known facts (lured-away engineers and abused Fiat-patents ) there was another circumstance  : The hard fight between the car manufacturing firms . As far as I know Agnelli was very impressed by Henry Ford and his brutal management .

And of course he knew about the economical success of a single car : The Model T !  Ford never cared about design or style of his product . He firmly believed that a car would be an object for driving from A to B and nothing else . And he became very rich for a long time . In my opinion Ford was the pattern for Agnelli  and reckless  brutality was a part of the zeitgeist . Dictator Mussolini prefered aeroplanes  and Agnelli was only interested in mass production like Ford , GM and Chrysler in the USA .

An avantgarde - racing car  just didn´fit in Agnelli´s world picture . And as I said in another post , the fact that this car only won the short  formula libre race  ( although the construction was clearly a GP car ) was not enough for  him , he was outraged that he was not informed about the race  and he wanted to show other manufacturers that he can be a mini-dictator as well .In 1928 the 1,5 litres formula came to an end and after Fornaca´s death Agnelli gained more power and he was able to eliminate all racing activities .

Agnell was angry because the loss of engineers , loss of investments and because racing was based on unstable foundations .In the year 1928 the 806 would had been no winner -type anymore because the 2-litres cars were allowed again for GP-races .

Fiat racing cars after WW 1  could not get sold into private hands because they were not reliable at all .A bad reputation would have been the consequence .

That´s only  my personal interpretation and  I´m not sure if I am completely right . But I hope these aspects will help to understand  Agnelli´s decision .

Many greetings !  Hannes

 

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I made new photos, after Juan Manuel last tips (especially doing them after shuting down all the ceiling lights to avoid shadows on the background, and working with a more important depth of field (f:8, the maximum allowed by my camera) to get sharpness on all parts of the model, this last parameter being very important on front and rear views.

I dedicate these 2 ones to all of you, dear friends who helped me to get a convincing build.

 

YXjyVk.jpg

 

ECyxO0.jpg

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Hannes, Thanks for the kind words.

 

I know the thread has run its course but I realised I had not posted any progress for a while. Below is a sample

https://flic.kr/p/22xQgsb

{Flickr does not seem to like me tonight}

 

I think I have finally got the photos (of the right hand side at least) to be as good as possible. Progress is still slow. But progress is still progressing so that is something!

Regards

 

Nick

Edited by NickD
Slight mod to the pic

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Indeed, dear Nick, impossible to open this link. I am pity unable to help you, I don't know why it doesn't work, and I use personally Image Shack and not Flickr...

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No problem here, strangely. 

 

39085278042_c9c53ce9e3_b.jpg 

 

Looks very convincing Nick. Yes there's a lot still to be done, but don't forget you have come from far! 

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This material is very worthy of the opening post !  A great step into the direction of the truth . And it´s  a great Christmas present as well .   Hannes

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Hello Olivier, your work is simply fantastic. I read every page and I think that it's a great guide to this model. I have the Protar one in box, waiting for a detailed build up. I have realized some photoetched rims, I that you will like it!

Luca

file.php?id=6936&mode=viewfile.php?id=6932&mode=viewfile.php?id=6935&mode=view

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Dear Luca , your photo-etched parts are much better suited than the known hand-laced wheels  which can get bought in the internet . Why ?  The rims are more realistic  and not Bentley-like .  Your parts can get used for the Mefistofele as well .Great work !

The real spoke system is a bit more complicated . The spokes are sometimes crossed from the outer to the inner " layer " and the two central " layers " are empty .

Harvey was the first one who recognized this arrangement .

However , your solution looks much better than the kit version !

Many greetings !  Hannes

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Dear Luca,

first of all, welcome on Britmodeller!

I thank you very much for your kind words, and I am very pleased you like our thread "research..." (I suppose you also had a look at the Gangshow). With all the team, I made my best to give tips and show how to get a convincing build. Look also the great Harvey's thread, his approach "full scratch" using mainly metal material is impressive!

Your PE rims are great, and I wonder how you managed that. Anyway, this set should allow modelers to earn a lot of time, while I had to cut every spoke and glue it...

They will just have to round the nipples, as you did on the last pic.

Of course, the PE parts are flat, and so the spokes will be flat too. The craziest will follow my method (or another one...) to get round ones, but for the others, as Hannes says, they will get a much much better version than what the kit "offers"...

The 806 page is turned for me now, I have begun a new thread dedicated to the :

Missouri Armada P 51D Mustang Tamiya 1/48 (name of my thread). The progress is slow because the experience of the 806 build made me very careful, getting and studying a lot of docs to avoid big mistakes before going on.

 

P.S: when I saw your pseudo, I first thought you were Italian, and I now see that your are Spanish, like Juan Manuel, my master in model making and photography...

 

 

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Roy/Hannes,

 

Yes please replace one of the first page posts with the above - it is way more accurate than some of my early musings.

 

More generally, I would like everyone's view on whether I should continue to publish occasional updates on the lines for the car here, or let the thread die.

 

Seasons Greetings

 

Nick

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Dear Nick , I´m not against a revival if there´s enough interest . Everybody who wants to join or intends to build his own version will get our support .

Because this is a giant thread with a lot of detours it might look intimitating for some who visit it the first time .But it´s also a place where everybody  can profit by our deep research .

My suggestion is : Let´s wait for a while and see what happens . I´ll show some pics from time to time .  If nothing happens this thread is still a great encyclopedia for all who are interested in this topic .  And : There´s no reason even for a beginner not to contribute . Don´t be shy !

Regarding the replacement : I just  don´t know how to do this  and I would appreciate very much if it can be done .

Many greetings !   Hannes

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I agree with Hannes here. I for one would certainly appreciate updates on the Blender-file to be posted here from time to time. And where Olivier and others left off, new builders could certainly add to the thread. It's also a scratchbuild-thread after all. Alternatively a separate build thread could be opened, like Harvey has done. It's up to the modeler to do what he prefers. I welcome any Fiat 806 scratch build report, either in this topic or elsewhere. 

 

The new Blender screenshot was already included in the opening post today. I removed some older files as they have meanwhile been subject to improvements. 

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Continued excellent work, Nick!!! Please do continue with your updates.....a valuable source of reference, for all!!

 

Luca...welcome aboard. Your wheels look great!

 

Cheers, H

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11 hours ago, Hannes said:

.... it might look intimitating for some who visit it the first time .But it´s also a place where everybody  can profit by our deep research ....

I think keeping everything in one (this) thread is a good idea. when doing research, sometimes a person is not aware of periferal things which make a considerable difference in outcome. having these things mentioned as the research progresses can avoid "taking a wrong turn".

Edited by southpier

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Dear Southpier , this car and it´s wrong kit gives us the opportunity to revive a legend .Olivier started with a great interpretation but there´s still enough room for everybody to build his own fascinating version . Most of us are not on such a high level like Markus 68 , Roger Zimmermann , Propeller or Gerald Wingrove .

But it´s possible to build great models with " low tech " methods  too and it´s a lot of fun to dive into the unknown .

Curiosity is one of the most important characteristics of the human race and it´s the source of creativity .

I would be pleased if this great project will continue .

Many greetings !   Hannes

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When I have begun my new thread, I have wondered if I opened a new one that would be mine, or if I would post on Squibby ´s one (Squibby has begun a few weeks before me another version of the same aircraft same Tamiya kit).

The bad experience with the Gangshow made me choose the first one, but I would have preferred the 2nd one, even if it is still possible to share on 2 different threads. The advantage of only one thread is to create a kind of « team spirit » and this « research.. » thread is the best example of this spirit...

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20 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

Dear Luca,

first of all, welcome on Britmodeller!

I thank you very much for your kind words, and I am very pleased you like our thread "research..." (I suppose you also had a look at the Gangshow). With all the team, I made my best to give tips and show how to get a convincing build. Look also the great Harvey's thread, his approach "full scratch" using mainly metal material is impressive!

Your PE rims are great, and I wonder how you managed that. Anyway, this set should allow modelers to earn a lot of time, while I had to cut every spoke and glue it...

They will just have to round the nipples, as you did on the last pic.

Of course, the PE parts are flat, and so the spokes will be flat too. The craziest will follow my method (or another one...) to get round ones, but for the others, as Hannes says, they will get a much much better version than what the kit "offers"...

The 806 page is turned for me now, I have begun a new thread dedicated to the :

Missouri Armada P 51D Mustang Tamiya 1/48 (name of my thread). The progress is slow because the experience of the 806 build made me very careful, getting and studying a lot of docs to avoid big mistakes before going on.

 

P.S: when I saw your pseudo, I first thought you were Italian, and I now see that your are Spanish, like Juan Manuel, my master in model making and photography...

Hello Olivier, thanks for all! I'm Italian but I live in Spain. I'm reading all the posts regarding the 806, everyone it's fantastic, with a lot of tips and tecniques to learn!

About the PE parts, you are right, are flat. But once mounted and painted in black it's difficult to appreciate the difference. Total respect for your work, I have laced many rims for motorbikes and cars and I know perfectly that it's a hard work.

 

I tried to spoke the Fiat wheels but the final quality of my work didn't satisfy me so I thought: what about PE? You can cross the spokes and the final result is very clean and every wheels takes 20 minuts of work...

 

20 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

 

 

 

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Again many thanks Luca! I am so glad all this time spent to make photos, labels and share them on this thread is appreciated.

I was first very disappointed not writing at least an article (or more), your gratefulness warms my heart. If all these efforts, done also in the goal of publishing, are helpful for you and maybe for others, it is the best thing I could hope.

Now I am focused on a new project (I live a lot in the present) and I have completely lost any motivation to publish anything on this build, but your comments are the best reward for me.

And so, finally, this thread will have met an Italian modeler! If you read it, you could see that we regretted sometimes that no Italian was interested in our research and scratchbuild, while this Fiat is a part of the Italian cars history. More, I had to translate sometimes Italian texts, your help would have been very useful. You arrived a bit too late for us, but we did overcome anyway...

Tanti auguri!

Olivier

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