Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 3 other comments about this step 14: 1) We may wonder why hard parts, like the magnetos (1K, 2K) and the parts 4, 5, 6 and 7K are made of soft plastic. I had resolved the problem on my personal build to paint them by applying a thin coat of liquid cyano, to get a hard surface, condition to apply a paint. Here, in the lack of any color reference, things are more simple... 2) the screws 02 in the step 6 are much too short to screw on them the nuts 02 (more, with washers!). I have glued the nuts where they are supposed to be... 3) Precisely, the 3rd comment is about these huge nuts 02, 4 mm (4 x 12 = 36 mm!). On my previous build, I had replaced them by smaller ones... That said, my step 14 is now over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 Yes I'm pretty sure the original 806 had plastic mould swirl traces all over its magnetos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Wow, a terrific fried and burnt "dodecapus"....love it Olivier Edited September 22, 2017 by CrazyCrank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 No comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.e.charles Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 why (on the real car) were the magnetos mounted on the dashboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 3 hours ago, southpier said: why (on the real car) were the magnetos mounted on the dashboard? They were mechanically connected to the engine (source: engine drawings, see first post) just like an old-fashioned ignition distributor. That way, firing would always go exactly on time. The best reason I can think of to have those magnetos be positioned as extensions of the internal engine shafts is, the double-6-cylinder design of the engine. With a single block (such as the 1927 Delage) asymmetry could have been used, especially given the available empty space on the right hand side of the engine. But with this Fiat there would be no such space on the left hand side, the left bonnet already practically touching the engine block. In my view, therefore, the Fiat 806 designers were left with no other choice but to put the magnetos behind the engine (to put them between block and radiator would not have been opportune cooling-wise). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.e.charles Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 thank you; helpful information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Southpier - A long time ago I stopped stating things as if they were certain, too often I was wrong, as I probably am now. I just wanted to add to Roy's comment above. Even though the model magnetos are terrible in many ways they do show a knob that is visibile on the magnetos of other cars of the same vintage. These cars also have the magnetos accessible in the cockpit. I assumed (because I am too lazy to prove) that the driver needed to be able to access the mags to tune the engine while it was running. Sounds pretty impractical to me but hey. The other reason this seemed likely to me was that the shafts are very long. If you didn't have to do it they would have been attached to the engine with the shortest shaft possible and no complex shock absorbing mounts. If you are interested there a number of photos of cars with similar arrangements on the internet Hope that is of interest Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 If you decide to build the kit OOB (what we can't definitely recommend... ), you will need a tool to screw the nut 02 at the bottom of 27B. I made this tool from a 4 mm Evergreen tube. As the hole inside the plastic tube was a bit too small, I enlarged it with a triangular blade by scraping. I made an exception on this 27B part, painting it polished alu while there was no color indication in the instructions. More soon... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.e.charles Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 3 hours ago, NickD said: ... the driver needed to be able to access the mags to tune the engine while it was running. ... definitely of interest; thank you. I find cars of pre-War vintage most interesting of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 hours ago, NickD said: Southpier - A long time ago I stopped stating things as if they were certain, too often I was wrong, as I probably am now. I just wanted to add to Roy's comment above. Even though the model magnetos are terrible in many ways they do show a knob that is visibile on the magnetos of other cars of the same vintage. These cars also have the magnetos accessible in the cockpit. I assumed (because I am too lazy to prove) that the driver needed to be able to access the mags to tune the engine while it was running. Sounds pretty impractical to me but hey. The other reason this seemed likely to me was that the shafts are very long. If you didn't have to do it they would have been attached to the engine with the shortest shaft possible and no complex shock absorbing mounts. If you are interested there a number of photos of cars with similar arrangements on the internet Hope that is of interest Nick Quite possibly; magneto ignition systems are very inefficient. They only run best within certain engine RPM ranges. They are preset for that range, go beyond that RPM range and the engine will mis-fire, the sparking timing will be out. eg the Austin 7 Chummy magneto is set to run the engine best at 2,000 to 3,000 rpm, approx 20 to 35 mph. Start going up to 4,000 rpm, towards 50 mph and the engine starts mis-firing* Obviously this is no good on a racing car. The best ignition is battery/coil/distributor, but for a racing car the battery adds an extra 10Kg [early batteries were a lot heavier and bigger than modern ones - I can fit a 12v 520ah in the space on my Austin 7 U which is for a 6v 45ah battery of original size] On the Austin 7 Chummy, you have to stop the car, remove part of the magneto drive and move it round by one or two drive teeth to set it for a different rpm. For the race driver to be able to do it as he drives is beneficial Impractical? maybe to us, but the driver often had to pump petrol to the gravity feed fuel tank, pump oil so that oil went to the valves and camshafts, adjust the brakes as he raced - during the race............oh, and win the race as well *This is why modern cars have battery/coil/distributor/alternator sparking plug ignition systems. It self adjusts over a great range of rpm. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Phew! my step 15 is over, but still problems to overcome. This time, it was the frame 1CF too small to come into 54E (the drawing is unclear, furthermore). Well, I did my best... The knob is really monstrous! A little comparison with our photo 3 VHR gives an idea how this steering wheel is wrong: N.B: the part 65E will be added at the step 29. P.S: I have changed my mind regarding the protection screen, thanks to the VHR version of this photo 3. In my opinion, it is not a metal grille like we use for fries, it is a very thin lightly opaque material. Look how it was necessary, on this VHR version, we can see many projections on it, particularly left... I suggest the reader to go too on the thread "806 Gangshow" on p. 32... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) Of course, nearly everything is wrong imho in this step 16 too, in particular the angle of the steering column (see our drawing 2 and my post of last 16/12/16 p. 36 of the thread). I wish you good moments to screw the 02 screws into the nuts 04 (with washers!) through 121 and 124D. Even OOB, this kit is definitely not for beginners (the best way to discourage the best wills). Edited September 24, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph adding 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.e.charles Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 despite the hurdles, you're making a beautiful job of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 hour ago, southpier said: despite the hurdles, you're making a beautiful job of it Thanks southpier. Even if I don't bring the same care to this OOB, I can't help doing the job correctly. And this way, we will really see what an academic OOB, following stricly the instructions and using the parts provided, results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Steps 17 and 18 over. I repeat myself, but these steps required too a lot of attention and experience, especially the step 17. Screwing the 03 screws in the nuts 04 through 24B and the shock absorbers (step 17), for example, is far from being easy. N.B: I did not expect going so fast with my OOB. I began it the 15/09, just 9 days ago, and I am at step 19! Finally, Roy, you were probably right, it should be done in not more than 1 month (maybe even a bit less...). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Step 19 over. It is probably one of the steps with the biggest difference in term of time spent for me. Respoking required a lot of patience. I recommend to go and see the pages concerned in the thread "806 Gangshow" on p. 29. I recall there are 72 spokes and not 36 as below, and they should be of course much more thin (I recommend 0,4 mm rods). The wheels of the OOB will be very different also because of the tyres, with different sizes (incredible that Italeri provides the Mef's ones instead of the 806 Protar's ones) and these bright decals (I will try to apply with care a mat varnish on them after full drying). Notice that these decals are missing on the box-art build... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Step 20 over. If I did not take care to the joint between 132 and 133D because it won't be visible, I made a careful and necessary contouring of the decal 3. A satin varnish has been applied on the digits, that were too bright. The shape of these digits, very narrow and stretched in height, is of course completely wrong. I added an enlargement of our photo 21 for comparison... no comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 There is a competition of models at Hyères in the context of Maquett'expo, next 14 and 15/10. I could maybe take part with my 806, especially as the topic is "mechanical sports". If I do, I will go only on Sunday afternoon, no question for me to leave my model without me present. It would be the first time I take part to such a competition, and I worry a bit about my model. I admit that I worry a bit too of my self esteem (more than for the awards) in case I don't win! Thierry, furthermore, can you recall me the name of the reknowned site on which you present your build please? Indeed, I have no news from the editor in chief of T2M after my last mail (about 10 days ago) and I think more and more I won't write the article for T2M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Dear Olivier, if you do enter the competition, I wish you the very best of luck! I understand your apprehension over the safety of your model and your self-esteem....I would feel the same in that position!! You certainly deserve a medal for your endeavours, but, at the end-of-the-day, it's the taking part that counts!! Good luck my friend! Cheers, H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I have interrupted my "build" (step 21) for a painting step. After preparation of the parts concerned (body, fairing (ever glued), bonnets, radiator case and seat fairing), they have got a coat of XF16 acrylic Tamiya (alu mat), used as a primer, as I did for my build (but with enamel paint). As for the wheels, it is funny for me to go so fast knowing the time I have spent on the modif brought to the body (many surgeries, louvres etc...), the bonnets (opening louvres), and the fairings (shape)... P.S: Thanks Harvey! I'll keep you informed about that. Furthermore, without news from the Veteran Car Club Bordino, I have sent them another mail, asking them to make photos with a cellular and send me them. This will take them not more than 10 minutes, but could be very useful for us... Hope they will do it. Here too, I keep you informed... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The XF 16 mat alu Tamiya dries fast. Less than 1 hour after the alu primer coat, I could apply the red X7 acrylic from the same brand: N.B: the X7 seems to give a slightly different red in this acrylic version, a bit more pink, compared with the same X7 in the enamel version... I preferred the other one, more bloody red. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Step 21 over. Here too, I followed strictly the instructions, so only the parts for which painting instructions where given were painted. Notice the "crescent" shape steering lever, one of the wrongest elements on this step: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 The radiator grille according to Italeri: one more time, I followed strictly the instructions, preparing the part (some flash to remove), applying white alu Alclad after scraping the mould marks especially on the (many) mounting points to the clusters, and then applying (sic!) the mat black (Vallejo 950). The least we can say is that, here too, the differences with my final grille will be huge: shape, proportions, thickness of the rods and color, all is different... Comparison: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 Now that's a huge difference! Yet, compare those two pictures with the box art... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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