Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Hannes said: I´m sure you´re glad these complicated works are over now ! I admit yes, especially because it is not the first time I made that job. Being a pioneer means doing and redoing until you get something acceptable. I hope all this time spent will at least help the next builders to get a good result (and maybe better!) earning a little time. In addition, next monday, we will celebrate the 90 years of the Monza G.P where the 806 we all love here took part, and I would have wanted my build to be over for that day. It won't, definitely, many things to do yet, and so few time now that my holiday is over... All the best Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Dear Olivier as far as I can see the hinges row is shorter than the bonnets . In my opinion there are no hinges where the supports are situated . It can be seen on different photos like no. 4 I could be wrong but a deeper research is required . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 The little stops Harvey noticed with right on photos 2 and 3 VHR seems to have completely disappeared on photo 9. So I am not sure at all it was still present the day of the race. Maybe it was a temporary display, or a decision to remove it finally... Difficult for me to imagine we would not see anything where they should be. I noticed that while I had begun to make them and was wondering if they were painted red or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 11 hours ago, Hannes said: as far as I can see the hinges row is shorter than the bonnets . In my opinion there are no hinges where the supports are situated . It can be seen on different photos like no. 4 Dear Hannes, I don't understand how the hinge rows could begin only there. In my opinion, it is necessary that the row begins with the bonnets, in order to be able to open them. A drawing of what you mean would help me. Not convinced for now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I have checked again, using a fine comparison between photos 2 and 9, and finally I can see (not easily but anyway clearly) the 2 stops on photo 9. So I will represent them of course. I will probably will paint them red... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 12 sections of 6,6 mm lenght, for a total of 79 mm, cut in 0,9/ 0,7 mm Albion Alloys brass tube, will be my hinge. Inside, I put a 0,6 mm steel rod. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Dear Olivier , I cannot draw a scetch because I don´t know how exactly the bonnets were fixed . Side-view of drawing 2 is not very helpful . There´s a hook under the hinges .( for a spring ? ) Sebastiens book shows a drawing of an 805 on page 115 and as it seems there are no hinges over the support . On page 128 there´s an Amilcar without bonnets but an odd construction can be seen . Fred as our technical expert could possibly help to unravel this construction . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 For a Bugatti there were taking-up-parts mounted on the bonnets supports : The rear one was a short tube where the hinges rod could slide in , the frontal one was an U -shaped support and the rod could slide in from above . This way the whole bonnet construction could get removed if necessary . Sometimes there was an additional rod below the hinges and between bodywork and radiator case for stiffening reasons . Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 There´s an unanswered question for me regarding the 451 2-stroke engine . In Sebastiens book there´s a drawing of a short 451 6-cylinder in-line engine with a long compressor case . ( page 141 / 142 ) . If drawing 1 shows a concept for this engine , why there are cam fairings on the bonnets ? In my opinion a similar concept ( a kind of double engine with two crankshafts and V-like shaped ) could have been a further development of the 451 2-stroke engine for our car ( 8 cylinders ? ) Maybe Sebastien knows more ? Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Hannes said: There´s an unanswered question for me regarding the 451 2-stroke engine . In Sebastiens book there´s a drawing of a short 451 6-cylinder in-line engine with a long compressor case . ( page 141 / 142 ) . If drawing 1 shows a concept for this engine , why there are cam fairings on the bonnets ? In my opinion a similar concept ( a kind of double engine with two crankshafts and V-like shaped ) could have been a further development of the 451 2-stroke engine for our car ( 8 cylinders ? ) Maybe Sebastien knows more ? Many greetings ! Hannes Dear Hannes, I know Sébastien is very busy with his next book, but maybe you could however ask him. Do you have his email? I think it is at the end of the book. If necessary, I will give it to you... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 The problem with these developments is that they were kept secret and no plans exist anymore especially if this construction was a failure . But according´Salamano´s interview this new developed engine must have been different from the 451 engine we can see in Sebastiens book . In the Rogliatti interview Massimino said two crankshafts were provided for the 2-stroke engine .I guess the name 451 was kept for camouflaging reasons .The plan of the in-line engine originates from April 1925 , the development of the new racing engine was halted in 1926 . This is an indication that our drawing 1 originates from late 1925 or 1926 . Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I did some research regarding the hinge system of the bonnets . Over the bonnets support of the radiator case there are no hinges . The hinges rod most likely is embedded in a small taking-up tube . On drawing 2 we can see the rear construction as well . There´s a small hook . In front of the hook there´s a pressure spring . The mechanic pulls the movable part into the frontal direction by using this hook , the rod gets released by opening an U-shaped taking-up part and both bonnets can get removed . In my opinion there are no real hinges anymore behind the spring .Just a movable tube with a hook at it´s downside .. Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Each of my Austins has a different arrangement for the bonnet attaching to the car. Two are closest to the 806; Two bonnet halves, joined along the top middle of the car, by a piano hinge A piano hinge is just one long hinge with 1 inch [2.5cm] alternating hoop pieces with one long bar running through them. At each end of one bonnet half one of these hinge loops extends down a bit and back [rear] & one forwards at the front end. They do not go beyond the length of the bonnet but end at the same length. At the rear this extra bit is a T shape This extension bit catches on the ridge of the scuttle [rear], under it and a projection from the radiator shroud [front], under it. Four small bolts go through the rear T bonnet piece and the scuttle edge and one medium sized bolt joins the front to the radiator shroud to hold the two bonnets halves in place but it also pulls and supports the radiator at the top The bonnet halves sit tightly against the scuttle ridge which is about 1cm deeper than the outside and lined with a rubber cushion strip; the same for the radiator end, it has a 1cm deep by 1cm wide ridge around the inside edge to support the bonnet parts #** saying 1cm so you visualise it, but its a different actual size The bonnet fixings have to be secure but are not load bearing. One car owner in my club has replaced the front and rear bolts with single ones drilled through to take an R clip so he can just pull the R clips out and lift his bonnet away in just a few moments work 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Many thanks for your explanation , dear Fred ! I hope Olivier will get supported regarding his final works . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Thanks Hannes and Fred, but I admit your technical comments in english are a bit abstract for me. Either you can suggest, with photos or a scetch, what you consider as the most probable hinge solution for you, either I will do with what I have, photos of the Bugatti and the Miller I posted above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I have added the 2 "stops" around the vertical steering arm, cut in a 0,5 mm alu foil (white arrow): Notice that my radiator hose has fallen again, with all the handling I still had to do. I will glue it again when I will be sure all is really over! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Dear Olivier , drawing 2 explains what I´m talking about . There is a small hook at the rear of the hinges row . In front of this hook we can see a black " hinge " . It´s a pressure spring ( possibly inside a tube ) . The part with the hook is no hinge but a movable tube . It covers the rear part over the bonnets support where the hinges rod is embedded . ( U-shaped ) .If you pull the hook into the frontal direction , the central hinges rod gets released and you can remove the bonnets . Over the bonnet support of the radiator case there´s a small tube where the frontal part of the central hinges rod can slide in . We can see this construction clearly on drawing 2 so there´s no scetch necessary imho . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 The hook must be bended into the rear direction , sorry Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Thanks Hannes! I have been looking for the best resolutions of D2 in Paul's sending and I found this: Rear construction: We can see clearly this spring and the hook you mention above. This enlargement suggests imho that the spring was indeed inside a tube so not visible, and it allowed the rod inside the tube to move for opening and closing. In these conditions, we may suppose the hook is in relation with the hinge, as you suggest. You drawing, despite the little error of hook bending, is very interesting and probably very close from truth. Front construction: D2 is not very helpful regarding the front construction, your drawing much more. Well, I will try to take all that in consideration... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Pity, a headache prevents me to work on my build now. So, I had a look on Pinterest in my mails and I found that photo representing Tazio Nuvolari filling himself his fuel tank. A nice and interesting photo, pity, it is of course an Alfa... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I guess my rear take-up construction is wrong . There seems to be a tube similar the frontal take -up on the rear bonnets support. The hinges rod is situated inside the movable tube with the hook , but ends before the bonnets supports start .You can pull this movable tube out of the short and bigger take-up tube and release the bonnets this way . An interesting construction ! The movable tube is not a part of a hinge imho . I think , the hinges row ended with the beginning of the spring . Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I had to modify my hinge, that did not take in consideration the naked rod necessary at the 2 bottoms. I have removed 1 section of tube, 11 instead of 12, allowing to have 3 mm naked rod at each bottom. Check of my hinge: O.K. I will have maybe to cut 0,5 mm at each bottom of the steel rod (not sure) to insert it in the front and rear female taking up. Thanks Hannes for your help! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Now the question (or one of the questions...) is to know how to represent the taking up at each bottom. I could use small sections of the same 0,9/ 0,7 mm Albion Alloys tubes. The D2 suggests a kind of continuation of the hinge tube. Hannes taking up in his drawing looks very good but it is bigger. So? I could use this enlargement of the Mef rear taking up as a reference... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 8 hours ago, Hannes said: There seems to be a tube similar the frontal take -up on the rear bonnets support I think so too, even if the frontal take-up in your drawing seems to be a little too big (I know it is schematic) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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