Hannes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) As you can see on my pics the oil-pan is situated too high . It should be 2-3 mm lower and the gearbox as well .That´s why I will elongate vertically . The engine´s height above the chassis is OK for me but the lenght need to get adapted .I will have to elongate the gearbox about 5 mm and the crankshaft case about 2-3 mm .There´s a lot to do ! I will alter the gearbox first because I want to complete my bottom panel . Many greetings ! Hannes Edited July 19, 2017 by Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) In order to scratchbuild the part that connects the engine to the frame (this part is very roughly represented on the kit), I had first to draw it, studying with care the different photos, especially the photos 28, 1AA, 2, 3 and 9, to precise the different measures. For the drawing as for the scratchbuild part, I began with the hole, 2,5 mm. I should have done this work before the steering arms, it would have been more simple. Anyway, it was not easy but I am quite satisfied of the result. I will have to do the same on the left side (a bit more simple, no steering arm), and to paint and weather a bit these different parts, but the dimensions and relations are acceptable: Edited July 19, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Looking at our photo 9, I wonder if the part that I just made, connecting the engine to the frame, was not painted red, like the frame... It is very possible, imho. Of course, the rod would remain "metal"... what do you think of that assumption ? Edited July 19, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Dear Olivier in my opinion there only was a triangular reinforcement sheet on this plate .The bolt above seems to be a support fixation for the exhaust manifold ( drawing 1 ) I don´t believe that the part was painted Photo 9 shows a dirty car after the race . The film shows this part brighter than the red surrounding .Many greetings ! Hannes Edited July 19, 2017 by Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Dear Hannes, me too, I thought it was a triangular reinforcement, but the enlargement below leaves no doubt imho: there are 4 nuts and a rhombus reinforcement. On the question of the color, I agree with you, it was probably not red but a darker metal color (and more flat) than the steering rods. All the best Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Dear Olivier , please read my post and look at drawing 1 .The 4 . bolt above this triangular sheet is a fixation for the manifold ! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Dear Hannes, I promise I read your post but I go on thinking the 4th nut is a part of this reinforcement. I am more confident in the photo 1AA than on the mostly wrong drawing 1. But of course, maybe you are right. I am just not convinced. Let's agree to disagree on that point... That said, I suppose you were talking about drawing 2, not drawing 1... The drawing 2 shows indeed a triangular shape of the reinforcement but it is not what I see on the many photos... The kit suggests this triangular shape but I don't agree... Edited July 19, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) A rhomb-like strenghtening sheet would make no sense imho because it´s duty was to strenghten the support for the suspension tube . Engine drawing 4 shows this principle . It´s too bad that our great thread seems to become a dialogue and no other opinions can be heard . Many greetings ! Hannes Edited July 19, 2017 by Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 On the drawing 2, the support as the reinforcement inside are both triangular. That is why Protar did them triangular. But this is not what I see on our photos. Notice that there are only 3 nuts and they are placed differently/ photo 1AA: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Hannes said: It´s too bad that our great thread seems to become a dialogue and no other opinions can be heard 100% agree on that point, dear Hannes! I don't understand we lost all our followers, even Harvey, BK, who were here for so long time. It seems CC still reads us, but except him, these last times, the desert... I regret the time when so many great modelers were focused and enthusiast... I had even not the time to read everything... I go on despite all and will probably post up to the end of my build, because it will be soon over... but I admit it I am very disappointed... It is maybe too boring to read "purists" approach, especially after so much time and so many pages (soon 150 only for this thread)... I did my best to show my progress through photos, more concret than long explanations, but indisputably, it was not enough... Edited July 19, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 For the successor weight-reducing measures were planned and instead of a quadrangular plate it was reduced to a triangular plate like in the kit´s solution . But the triangular reinforcement plate was the same imho and on all our photos including 1 AA I only can see a triangular shape .Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Ok Hannes, I had another look at our photos and you are right. The photo 3, in particular, leaves no doubt. Definitely, you have better eyes than me! Edited July 19, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Dear Olivier , I also regret this development . But look at the whole subject from a different point of view . Maybe we will be the only ones who reconstructed this magnificent car . I guess my reconstruction will be finished next year . That´s a long time .. And maybe some who silently watch our thread will be encouraged to do similar . The amount of informations I gained by this thread will enable me to build a realistic model and you already almost realized this dream ! So let´s not get depressed ! In no other thread these discoveries would have been possible . And even if Photobucket destroyed a lot of pics the informations will remain . Many greetings ! Hannes PS Of course I am willing to share informations if you intend to build the Mef , but only if you still can tolerate this german wise guy Edited July 19, 2017 by Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Hannes said: And even if Photobucket destroyed a lot of pics the informations will remain . It is really a pity, that! but don't worry, I am not depressed at all, just disappointed, because I regret the enthusiasm of the beginnings... After, it is summer time and maybe some are more outside, at the beach or the pool, than on their workbench... I don't know yet what will be my next build, there is the Mef, of course, but I could be tempted too by a very different project. That said, if, my build over, I work on this kind of diorama, with tools and mechanic (s), it will take me some more time with this amazing build, my most ambitious build from now. P.S: I have learnt to like my german friend, wise guy and great modeler with hawk eyes... Edited July 19, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Chaps, Courage mes braves. I feel there are still at least 3 musketeers. I may not be making much progress - way too many things going on at home - but I continue to track progress. You also get a prompt response when you ask a question, and sharknose commented the other day, so you are not being ignored. Partly is that you are so far away from the base kit that no-one else is anywhere near. I suspect that the amount of work required to essentially turn drawing 1 into drawing 2- is pretty daunting. Finally, I suspect few feel confident enough to comment when the two of you have been looking at the model so closely for so long. Finally finally to show I am paying attention, but maybe not the first to spot this, two things on break lines. 1. There appears to be some sort of stay between the chassis and the brake cable just forward of the engine mount. 2. The cable for the front brakes on Drawing 2 goes to the centre of the brake hub but it is not obvious what the hub mechanism looks like. Regards Nick PS sorry about the French! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Thanks Nick! I didn't tell you, but about 10 days ago, maybe a bit more, I wrote a PM to Robin trying to have news from him. Pity, I didn't get any reply. It's the problem of social network, virtual relations... I remember he suggested to meet each other one day... Well, that's so... I hope we finally have news. The same for VT, who disappeared in the nature while he seemed so interested in the subject. Personally, I have regularly been in contact with Juan Manuel Villalba, sending him by We transfer my progress. This very unique modeler is also a very kind guy, always very encouraging. I hope I will be able to meet him soon... He had given me a lot of good hints when I made my previous model, the Yak 3. And I leave you for now to show him the most recent photos. This thread, with guys (no girl, pity, I have a theory for that...) coming from all parts of the Europe and over, recalls me a french film that my wife and me love: "L'auberge espagnole" from Cédric Klapisch. In this film, young people meet each other in a colocation at Barcelona, in the context of Erasmus. They are all different, speak different languages, but they form a human community and when finally they leave each other and follow their own way at the end, returning in their own countries, there is a lot of emotion, because of all the moments, sometimes good, sometimes less, spent together. Social network can't replace real friendship, but do you have in your circle of friends, modelers? Me, not, and I regret it. My friends, family, cousins, are very surprised and impressed when I show them what I do. They wonder how I can spend so much time and be so patient. They can't imagine that model making is like a soft drug, that gives a lot of pleasure. There must be liberation of pleasure hormones, something like that, the same than in sports (running, biking, etc.) I leave you now, all the best to all, I would be so pleased to have news from everyone contributed to this thread and the other one, the Gangshow, and so to my build. The moment is not yet to thank all of them, but it will come soon... Olivier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) On this enlargement of photo 3, it is obvious that Hannes was right: we can see clearly the top base of the triangular reinforcement: Happily, I could, with care, make the correction. As my reinforcement was made from tin foil, soft metal, I could gently cut it and remove the wrong portion. On the other hand, I still have a doubt regarding the color of that connecting part. If you consider our Drawing 3, this connective part is made of only one piece and it is frame color. On drawing 3, the frame is black so the color of the part is black too. If you extend this to our red frame, the part should be red too, on its outside part, at least. Of course, I am not sure, but... The only photo taken the day of the race that may help in this matter is the 9 one. On it, the color is darker than the metal steering arms, but impossible to say if it was red or dark metal. Pity, the color photo was invented at this time but it is only in 1935 that Kodak invented the color film... Things would have been more easy... But if you consider too that this part was clearly visible the day of the race (no bonnet on it), it is very possible that the painters applied the red on the whole piece, on the outside, leaving the metal naked on the inside. I think it will be my choice, unless you convince me of the contrary... Edited July 20, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Dear Olivier , it´s really hard to say if this part was painted or not . On photos 14 and 24 it seems to be bright regarding the left side .Maybe also a part of Bordino´s trousers can be seen but at the spot where this support is supposed to be it´s brighter too ! Confusing ... I want to add some thoughts regarding a virtual relationship or even friendship : I´ve never been in a thread before entering the gangshow , don´t belong to a facebook community and I´m not used to write or receive SMS . It was my curiosity which let me do this unusual step and I needed courage for that . And I never did regret it ! It has been an unique experience for my life and I realized that there ´s still a lot to learn in my age ! And it´s not over yet ! After a while you also can estimate the characters of the other members ( like Olivier´s warm-hearted personality ) and also learn to know your own good and bad sides better. That´s more important than the model itself . The model only reflects our wish to create a physical memory and there´s a lot of fun doing so but sometimes it´s painful too ! Many greetings Hannes Edited July 20, 2017 by Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Hannes said: On photos 14 and 24 it seems to be bright regarding the left side Dear Hannes, one more time, you are right. On these photos, this part appears lighter than the body and the frame. So, I will paint it dark alu. 3 hours ago, Hannes said: I´ve never been in a thread before entering the gangshow , don´t belong to a facebook community the same for me, first time I take part to a thread and don't belong to a Facebook community. And I feel the same than you about Britmodeller, I never did regret sharing. Alone, I would never have done this amazing work, and I would have done many errors and approximations! 3 hours ago, Hannes said: Olivier´s warm-hearted personality Thank you Hannes, I did not always deserve these kind words... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 This suspension with tubes directly connected with the engine was a novelty at that time .I guess one of the disadvantages was the direct transfer of the engine´s vibrations to the frame and the whole bodywork . Maybe Bordino felt like on an electric chair ! The expression on his face after only 50 km track on photo 9 tells a story ! 12-cylinder engines usually run smoother than a 6 cylinder for instance . I doubt this construction could get transfered for a 4 cylinder ( like some Bugattis for instance ) because this means torture ! Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) As it seems these tubes were not fixed with bolts or similar , they just were laying on their suspensions as far I can see . The question is : What was the real purpose of the crossed rods under the engine ? I always believed they should stiffen the chassis but I´m not so sure anymore . Maybe the duty of these adjustable rods was to adjust the level of vibrations ? Massimino could have answered all these questions but apparently nobody asked him 40 years later . Many greetings ! Hannes Edited July 20, 2017 by Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Chaps Did you have any thoughts on my comments on the brakes. Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Dear Nick if I understood you right you are talking about the part that holds the cable in place . The kit´s solution provides a thin copper cable bended to a loop which leads through 2 holes on a plug and should get drilled together on the backside . Of course I already removed this ugly part on the chassis and will replace it by a realistic thin quadrangular plate with rounded edges at it´s front for holding the cable in distance away from the chassis This measure was necessary imho because the brake cables had to follow the up and down movements and the left-right turning of the frontal wheels . I cannot tell you how exactly this cable was connected with the frontal brake drum . There seems to be no lever on the outside of the drum ( contrary to the rear brake drums ! ) that´s why I believe there had been an internal mechanism. We can see the two guide pulleys on the plan view ( maybe connected with the lower mounting points of the rear shock absorbers ) and - as you said - the cable seems to be connected somewhere below the center of the drum hidden under the frontal axle .There seems to be something as we can see on photos 12 and 21 . Maybe comparisons with other contemporary racing cars could help to solve this problem . Many greetings ! Hannes PS did you see the Porsche pics on our PM thread ? Edited July 21, 2017 by Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 On 19/07/2017 at 22:44, NickD said: 1. There appears to be some sort of stay between the chassis and the brake cable just forward of the engine mount. 2. The cable for the front brakes on Drawing 2 goes to the centre of the brake hub but it is not obvious what the hub mechanism looks like. Dear Nick, I admit I don't see clearly what you mean. Could you post a drawing or photo to precise your thought, please? Dear Hannes, I have removed the little ugly hooks on the kit, that represented the points on which should be fixed the fasteners for the bonnets. But I don't see anything visible to replace them. I think there was necessary something, a kind of ring or hook, but inside the frame and not on top of it. I wonder how I will represent that, in the total lack of picture... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) As I was trying to see the "hook" mentioned above (totally invisible because inside the frame imho), I noticed something curious on our photo 2: on this, the curved arm seems to be more outside than the straight arm, but they are at the same level frontally. On the photo 1AA (the angle of view is a bit different), the curved arm seems to be thicker than on photo 2, but over all, it seems to be much more frontal than the straight arm, that seems to be a bit more outside. Even the angle of view is a bit different, it does not explain such different perceptions imho. The configuration of these pedals remain very mysterious for me... Is this curved arm the arm of a pedal? if yes, is it the accelerator pedal? on photo 2, I would say yes, on photo 1AA, I would say no! On both, the curved arm is darker than the straight one, very bright. P.S: I finally made rings for the fasteners, of 1,4 mm diameter, glued inside the frame... Photo soon... Edited July 21, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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