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Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds


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On 30/06/2017 at 19:20, Hannes said:

7JGUbP.jpg

 

 

Hannes - I loved this shot too - frame looks really neat and convincing.

 

13 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

IcFNNh.jpg

Edited 11 hours ago by Olivier de St Raph

 

On exhaustgate: I think that is looking really convincing. The thing I don't understand about the exhause is why the wrapping appears to go so far forward. It does look like it gos almost all the way to the front. I don't understand when though.

 

Also only just realised that the left side is straight and the right side is stepped (thought they both were stepped) - Duh

 

Personnally what time I have had has gone on the frame at the front. Hannes - had you noticed that the bracket holding the front cross-beam slips into the end of the chassis frame (the colour change in some of the photos shows what I mean).

 

On the engine side view a bit of the frame is shown - including this bracket. Great. It looks like it bolted through from the side. Strangely in the photos it seems to bolt from the top.

 

Otherwise there has been too much to comment on. Loved the detailed insights from Blackknight and CC as always

 

ATB

 

Nick

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Dear Nick , I hope I understood what you were talking about . The bolts that can be seen between the mounting points of the shock absorbers are just for fixation purposes , . Later on the bolt´s heads will vanish and only  short threads inside the rails will remain. I will spread the frontal rails a bit and let the bracket slide over these threads,.There will be plates with round edges in the region of the absorber´s mounting points .on the outside of the rails .

The reason for this construction : I want to use these  mounting points as mounting points for my radiator case too! 

All of my brackets and cross-beams are still removable ( except the 2 rear ones )  and will get altered as necessary .

Btw : I´ve been visiting a flea-market today and found a very heavy Porsche book ( 5-10 kg ! ) from the early 90 ´s with wonderful photos of all Porsches till 1992 .If you are interested in photos of a special type , please let me know ! 

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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Hannes, Thanks for getting back to me. The area I was referring to is on the full size car not your wonderful model. Right at the front of the chassis, on top of the frame, behind the cross-beam there is a bolt on each side. It looks like the bolt holds the bracket for the front cross beam. You can see the bracket on the engine drawing. But it appears to be connected through the side not the top. I'd post a pic but it is such a faff (eng. sl - really really tedious inconvenience).

 

Also, only just noticed that  the shock absorbers on drawing 2 are in different longitudinal positions at the front in the two views which is a bit odd as the frame is consistent in both views. As usual another enigma. I will check it against the photos eventually.

 

As for porsches - classic 917Ks and LHs are my favs. Thanks for the offer.

 

ATB


Nick

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Dear Nick , my theory was that the top-view of drawing 2 shows the  downside mounting points for the absorbers . In my scale there´s a distance of 7 mm between the upper and 11 mm between the downside mounting points .

Regarding the Porsche photos : I have an much better idea : You have done very important work for all of us and especially for my own construction  , that´s why I want to send you the whole book as a present to the island . . I´m sure you will enjoy it ! I´ll post the email adress of my sister to our prvate thread tomorrow ( I don´t have none )and you send me your private adress.I hope you still have enough space on your bookshelf !

Many greetings  !   Hannes

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Step 28G: the kit offers a 1,5 mm PVC tube to go to the dials. It is much too thick imho, and I have chosen the braided wire 0,38 mm (RB Motion). But I had not enough wire for the 3 ones, so, I used a 0,5 mm one (prime miniature) for the A one, the less visible.

I drilled a hole in the nipples to glue firmly the wires...

 D8Dea3.jpg

 

But it is written that nothing will be simple in that construction: I had to remove the nipples, that were taking too much room, preventing the dashboard to come in place correctly under the fairing:

mnByKu.jpg

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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Dear Olivier , this RB motion wire looks very good and I´m going to buy it too later on !

Meanwhile I removed the rear mounting pins on the crankshaft case and replaced it by a sliding brass tube system . The frontal mounting points will get reduced to  a single one on the left side .

( on a different spot due the flatter inclination of the rails ) Next step will be a cheating trick : I will elongate the gearbox about 5 mm.Because I own two engines I will cut out a piece of the Protar gearbox and glue it between the sectioned Italeri parts .Sounds scary , huh ? But it won´t be a big problem .Because the engine is in exactly 1 : 12 scale I have to adjust the difference somehow and this seems to be the most elegant way imho .

What´s more difficult is the correct fixation of the steering case with the steering column to the engine unit . I´m not yet completely through with my plans.

If the engine´s situation is defined , my next step will be a new construction of the frontal bottom panel with it´s openings followed by  it´s mounting to the chassis .

The exhaust system also can get constructed once the crankshaft case is at it´s correct place .

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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Good luck for your surgeries, Hannes.

I am glad, my dashboard is now in place. Phew! it was not easy, even after removing the nipples... The wires are nearly invisible behind the dashboard. 

The driver's gloves are too shiny, I will improve that...

lqx9jr.jpg

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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2 hours ago, Hannes said:

Yes , hide all lighter petrol , thinner and other explosive materials ! Or else ...wroom , roar , bang !:D  Hannes

:D!

I began to work on the front parts of the exhausts, 148 and 149D. Here too, a lot of work to approach truth. The parts are, like for 144 and 145D, much too thick (in height and in width). More, the photo 1 shows these parts decrease in height frontally, and there seems to be too a light movement to the inside, when the parts provided by the kit are desesperately flat... More soon, and suggestions welcome...

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Dear Olivier , I made a scetch regarding this topic last week. The kit´s parts are completely wrong imho and it could be easier to build them from scratch as I suggested .

Thanks to bothofucket all my pics are gone . They ruin a lot of threads by their extortion and destroy cultural goods . But that´s typical for a lot of American companies :Money is much more important than culture . Not only the radical Islam is a cancer for world´s society , the turbo-capitalism is noxious as well .

If you want me to re-publish my drawing , please tell me !  On our photos we can see the pipes most of the time from the side-view .This could suggest , the kit´s bends could get altered and are OK regarding their shapes . That´s an illusion imho !  Photos 3 , 4  and 8 show : They start under the bonnets , are wide arched and bend a bit towards the rear parts at their ends .So please : Planning and discussion before action !

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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Hannes,

 

This thread seems to have been good for improving everyone's english but mine. I still seem incapable of explaining myself clearly.

 

On shock absorbers - the mounts are further apart in the plan view than the sideview as are the bodies. It is not at all obvious what the draughtsman was trying to show. The bodies seem to have  the right diameters. To my eye, the plan view shows the top of the car. Details behind the radiator are shown dashed.

 

On the subject of the book - I am grateful for the offer, though it is not what I contribute here for. Let's discuss on PM.

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited by NickD
Cocked up and talking crap!
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Dear Nick , I just measured the distances between the mounting points on the side-view . In my scale the upper mounting points have 7 mm distance , the lower ones 11 mm.

The plan view shows a distance of 11 mm , that´s why I believe ,the plan view shows the lower mounting points , that´s all.

Regarding the book , let´s meet  on PM !

Many greetings !  Hannes

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Ooops ,I just opened a new site on our PM thread without knowing it and a different Nick responded . A senior moment perhaps ? NickD ,please read my message in Olivier´s new conversation !  Hannes

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12 hours ago, Hannes said:

So please : Planning and discussion before action !

Don't worry, Hannes. But on the question of asbestos wrapping, I tried to plan and discuss before acting. About the wide arch, look at photo 12, the arch is still more evident and important on this photo!

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17 hours ago, Hannes said:

 

Dear Olivier , I made a scetch regarding this topic last week. The kit´s parts are completely wrong imho and it could be easier to build them from scratch as I suggested .

 

Dear Hannes,

I didn't find your scetch, could you post it again please?

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With my new chassis back on the cradle ( with new supports )  I installed the crankshaft case  in a horizontal position . I used 3 kinds of telescope brass tubes .

The middle-sized tubes were glued into the case and the small tubes with the full distance between the mounting points enable a shifting in the left-right directions .

Middle- sized and great tubes were used for creating distance pieces to hold the case in it´s off-centered position.

In my scale the engine unit is off-centered 4,5 mm , this means in reality this unit was shifted about 5 cm seen from the geometrical center towards the left side.

There´s only one mounting point left for the frontal engine suspension.because I cannot see a bracket on drawing 2  as in the kit´s solution.

In this case I also glued a middle-sized tube into the crankshaft case but I did not break through to the other side .

Now I´m going to mull over how to attach the steering case with it´s steering column to the crankshaft case .

Many greetings !  Hannes

 

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Dear Olivier , I added a small scetch on the right side to show how a possible scratchbuild could be done.

1 ) Drill holes in the cylinder heads for all short pipes

2 )Take copper cables with isolation and remove the isolation where it leads into  the cylinder heads .

3 Take a 2 mm plastic plate , drill slanted holes for the cables and bend it as necessary . At the very end it should be bended into the other direction to get a good transition for the rear pipes

4 ) The first pipe could get frontal connected as shown on my small scetch on the right side .

5 ) Now pull the cables through the holes and glue with a 2-component glue  ( I recommend UHU plus endfest 300 for instance )This way you have a long time for corrections 

6 ) After the connection is firm , cut off the cable ends  and file down

7 ) Now you can add a 0,5 mm plastic plate to the outside of the bends , and file the whole part in shape .

 

The flexible copper cables allow a correction in vertical directions if necessary 

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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Hannes,

 

You asked for a view on engine supports some time ago but I didn't offer a view.

 

The rear mounts are obvious. As you point out, the front mount does not seem to be shown anywhere. To my mind, the choices are: assymetric on the side possible at the same point as the rear mount for the front spring; or off the cross member under the radiator. The engine drawing shows engine structure under the cross member so it could have been used. It would have given a nice triangular load path and pick up on strong structure. A side-mount looks less good to me. There would have been twist loads at the suspension point that would need to have been accounted for. If it was mounted on one side, I don't understand why they did not mount it the other side too - but no mount is visible.

 

So my vote would be a cunning mount on the supercharger housing attached to the cross-tube under the radiator.

 

Hope that provides food for though

 

Nick

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Dear Nick I also believe that the frontal suspension was connected with the strong cross-member between the mounting points of the shock absorbers . The frontal cap of the roots blower case is very massive as we can see on engine drawing 4 . But I needed a different solution for my model because the engine is somewhat smaller in scale , that´s why I used this mounting point .

It won´t be noticeable once the  build is finished.This crossbeam also was situated a bit more in the rear direction but I need the space for my bolts of the absorbers .

Of course I want to keep compromises as small as possible but sometimes they are not avoidable . The engine has a 1.12 scale . the rest of the model 1 . 10,9 .

I´m about to elongate my gearbox a bit and this measure helps a lot to keep some parts in place . I guess the final result is what matters and some small cheating tricks should be allowed !

I hope , I´m not cheating more than the Protar designers !

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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