NickD Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Chaps, That sounds like a plan. I'll post as progress allows. Roy, thanks for replacing a very outdated pick with something a little closer to right. Luca, as the others have said, "Welcome" Seasons Greetings to all Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 hours ago, NickD said: I'll post as progress allows. Please do Nick!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Merry Christmas to all ! This year I won´t tell a fairy tale ,the old photos will tell their own story . Our hero Bordino was only 24 of age when the second photo was shot ( 1911 ) In the background we can see the Zetland Hotel in Saltburn by the Sea . Bordino drove all the way from Brooklands near London to the northeast coast on public roads . He achieved a land speed record on the beach course . If we close our eyes we can see this fire-spitting red monster driving through small villages and scaring honest citizens . The number plate is somewhat deformed and I hope Bordino did not hit any animals ... The co-driver was an Englishman named George Scales who worked in Italy . A personal remark :Christmas is the right time for repairing broken relationships .I´m aware that there is more than one culprit in the most cases if something went wrong . My wish is to return to a normal relationship with Roy who has done a lot for our common issue . If there´s no peace on earth we should be peaceful in our small community at least . Have a wonderful time with your families , friends and animals ! Hannes 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Thanks so much Hannes for these kind and wise words and for the pics! Have a nice and peaceful time too, my friend! All the best Olivier P.S: do you know when the first photo was done? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Dear Olivier , I´m not sure but the starting number 4 indicates 1923 perhaps . I´ll have a look at the index , maybe I´ll find out more . Many greetings , my dear Olivier ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 The Fiat 805 / 405 had the number 4 in 1923 and the photo was shot most likely in September 1923 . Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Thanks again, Hannes. I am at Brussels now, for family trip. As usual, I was a bit sad to leave my workbench (4 days), but so glad we can see our daughter and his boy friend, who now live here. I have a lot of fun with my new build, but I miss all of you, I must say. I was very glad to have news from vontrips recently, even if sad to see he was banished for several months from Brit. He unstuck all his stamps at once (I don't know if this sounds clear, in french we say "décoller tous ses timbres d'un coup" to express that he had accumulated a justifiable resentment towards the ingratitude and narrow-mindedness of some members). I wonder what Robin Lous has become. Is he O.K? Did he finish his very nice build? I would be pleased to have news from Black Knight too... I remember with nostalgia the little quizz I had suggested to you around 1 year ago. We had a real dream team, and had so much fun with this research... We can be proud for the the work we have done for truth, all together. A totally selfless research, just to satisfy our curiosity and to honor the men who gave so much for their brand, Fiat. When I see that the actual PDG, great grand son of G. Agnelli, even did not reply to me who sent him photos and links to our thread, it is pathetic... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 The reason why we almost did not get any support by the Italian side could be possibly founded in the fact that they tried to build a replica but -as it seems - with no success . On page 6 on this thread there is a discussion in an automotive forum in 2003 , published by Sam . An 806 IIRC was partial built under camouflaging conditions ,licensed by Fiat and constructed for an unknown person .The chassis should had been completed and the Centro Storico was supposed to provide detail plans ! Of course I don´t know what is wrong or right , but I guess it would be very shameful for Fiat if a handful of modelers would be successful regarding a reconstruction and the great company is not ! Nick should watch out not to get copied regarding his virtual model ! Many greetings ! Hannes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I admit I am a bit septical about this assumption. Maybe I am wrong but I am afraid Fiat is just not very concerned by this old race car and by their history (maybe they would prefer to forget it, what would be very understandable...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 There were rumours that Montezemolo was interested in that build . He was president of Fiat / Ferrari and fired in 2014 . . It´s possible that he was the unknown person . These car enthusiasts from 2003 are probably still online . Maybe we can find them and ask . Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Personally, I am now focused on my new project, but if someone else has still the energy and the faith (maybe Luca who is Italian...), I would follow with interest any new development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Hannes, Great picture. The car is insane. On the subject of replica, it's going to take more than 4 pictures and 4 drawings to resurrect this machine. Kind though you are about my drawings they are a way off being complete. Following Oliviers' lead, Harvey and yourself are the closest to a bottom up build of the beast. Nick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 I think this is new: Quote Fiat who had entered in every Grand Prix race (with the exception of 1913), from 1906-25, had taken almost no part in the 1,5-litre formula of 1926-27, although their racing department had been busy constructing twelve-cylinder cars with both two-stroke and four-stroke engines. In 1928 work on these was abandoned and the cars were put into storage. (From: 'The Grand Prix Car', Laurence Pomeroy, 1st edition 1949) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 I wasn´t connected with britmodeller in the last two days and I´still don´t know why . Firewall problems perhaps .. Dear Roy , the 451 2-stroke engine is still a mystery for me . On page 183 on this thread I published the 2 known drawings . It shows an 12-cylinder double in-line engine with 6 hanging pistons .I wonder why Zerbi constructed an very high engine whilst the rest of the car was very low . Maybe the height of this engine was the reason for the sandwiching measure ? For the 451 engine cam fairings would not make any sense but most likely the bonnets topline must had been situated higher . It´s an odd construction and as far as I know it was not repeated in engine construction´s history . A mechanic became deaf during the test runs . In my opinion the 451 engine was a failure construction from the beginning and I guess Agnelli was not amused . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Like you and many followers I suppose, I couldn't go on Brit these last 3 days. I suppose it was a new virus attack, not the first one on Brit, I hope it the last one... All the best Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Happy new year to all ! May all of your dreams become true ! ( exception : nightmares ) And let´s hope that our somewhat orphaned thread becomes filled with life again ! Many greetings ! Hannes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Happy New Year to all the gang!!! Hope you have a good one! Cheers, H 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Thanks Hannes and Harvey ! The same for you and all the team! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Happy new year 2018 to all members of the dream team and to all friends and members of this great forum 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Some days ago I ordered Cyril Posthumus´book : "The roaring twenties , an album of early motor racing ." Some details are interesting . Benoist , although entered for the formula libre race ( Milan Grand Prix ), had elected not to run . I quote : " That way Delage evaded possible defeat , and Fiat wound up their magnificent racing career with a final win .Three of the new Fiat " 12 " s were entered for the British Grand Prix - an intoxicating prospect , although of course they non-started .Only one car was ever actually built , and legend , unconfirmed , has it that Fiat chief Agnelli , returning from a long American tour , was furious at the work put in to the racing car at a time when the economic depression was already being felt, and ordered it to be broken up , together with all spares and patterns . Certainly no car or parts ever survived ." The last sentence is not correct because an 406 engine part survived as we can see in the Rogliatti article . Agnelli´s America journey indicates that I´m possibly not too far away from the truth regarding my theory you can read above . I´m convinced that he was impressed by the American mass-producers and was not far-sighted enough to see the benefits from racing sports for normal car developments . The decicions of that time last till our days , not only in Europe. Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Our great thread seems to be dead , but a small candle of life is still burning . We found out a lot but there are still unanswered questions . One of them was the origin of the master model in the Centro Storico . In an old book of mine ( Modellautos aus eigener Hand , 1969 ) I found 3 Fiat models for the Centro Storico in 1: 5 scale . They were made by the company of the Morselli brothers . I never heared of them and unfortunately I also could not find anything in the net . The crucial question , which drawing was the foundation for this model ( drawing 1 imho ) and what kind of informations were given by Fiat remains unanswered . But as it seems our 806 master model was made in 1 : 5 and not in 1 : 6 . Conti preferred the 1 : 10 scale , that´s why I think , the model in the CS was made by the brothers Morselli . I´ll show some photos today . Many greetings ! Hannes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Dear Hannes, I would be pleased to see your progress on the Fiat 806, why don't you go on posting on this thread (or another, to your convenience)? I suppose you must not be so far from the end of your build now... On my side, the progress is slow because of a lot of research and discovers about the P-51D, as we did on the Fiat. I learnt a lot of things, as I did for the Fiat. Model making opens so many doors, and creates the occasion to learn a lot on many matters... I was on holiday last week, and so, I couldn't go on, but I have found back my workbench and, with the new infos concerning especially the rivets question (that will recall some other rivets question to you...), I will be able to go on very soon... Many greetings Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Dear Olivier , that´s a very good suggestion and I will follow your advice . In the last months I was sick but now I´m in a much better condition and I will continue with my construction . I´ve been watching your thread and I can see that very professional members are on your side and that´s great and I´m happy about that . Harvey made great progresses as well and I´m sure that the topic " 806 "will have it´s revival . Sam´s new thread regarding the Mef is also interesting , so have a look ! All the best , my friend ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Hannes, Sorry to hear you haven't been well and very pleased to hear you are on the mend. I too would love to see progress on your 806. ATB Nick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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