Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I have still spent 3 hours on my model to improve the wheels fasteners, that were too thick and too large. I will have needed to see the last comparisons photos to notice it! This shows that we should study with still more care the photos, we would earn time... In the same time, I have improved the surface state, getting a better bright look for my white alu: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 One of the reasons why Fiat retreated from motorsport with racing cars could have been political originated . Mussolini knew about the importancy of motorsports for propaganda reasons but unlike Hitler some years later he preferred aeroplanes .Italy won the Schneider trophy 1926 in the USA , a contest for seaplanes and flying boats . Tranquilo Zerbi´s main task was to develop aviation engines . The two engines for our car , the 451 2-stroke and the 406 4-stroke engine were only developed by the way by Zerbi . Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Yes Hannes, this is very possible indeed. We may suppose there were several reasons for such a decision. What remains impossible to understand is the order of destruction, for which I didn’t find any trace somewhere. When I was at the Centro Storico, looking at the archives, I tried to find in "L'auto italiana" in the 1928 numbers something about that, but nothing. I just found the Bordino ´s accident and funerals. Today, such an important fact would be of course mentioned, but in a fascist country like Italy in 1928, this info may have been censored, as it was not very glorious... Edited October 10, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph correction 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I guess some people on this planet know about the real reasons why Giovanni Agnelli decided to commit this " crime " . But I think it´s a Agnelli family secret and they don´t want to talk about it . The grandson Agnelli traded the Mef for three Fiat 126 in the 60´s , a real bargain ! It´s insurance value today is about 6 millions Euros .Three cheap 126 for a motorsport legend ! The Centro Storico is possibly not allowed to give informations by order of the Agnelli-Clan . Many greetings ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Hi chaps, please forgive me as I know this has been discussed previously (atrociously bad memory lol), but what infos do we know about the 451/2 engine? Cheers, H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, Hannes said: But I think it´s a Agnelli family secret and they don´t want to talk about it . this is indeed quite probable... 25 minutes ago, harveyb258 said: what infos do we know about the 451/2 engine? Dear Harvey, Hannes is the most qualified to answer you, there is a whole chapter dedicated to this 2 stroke engine in Sebastien's book... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Dear Harvey , there´s only a frontal and side-view drawing of Zerbi´s 451 left Massimino said two crankshafts were provided for the 451 engine and according Salamano´s version this futuristic engine should enable Fiat to build the first 2-stroke engine racing car in the GP formula ´s history . . In 1925 when the first plans were made it was not yet known that in 1927 no riding mechanic had to be aboard anymore and therefore an central engine ( preferred the 2- stroke engine ) and two seats were provided first imho . The 451 engine caused too much problems like overheating and an enormous " consumption " of pistons ,that´s why it´s development was stopped and the 406 engine was developed further . . My theory is that the master model and our kit was made according plans for the two-stroke engine and Protar needed to insert the longer 406 into the older concept , that´s why only the engine ´s scale is correct ( 1 : 12 ) and the rest of the model is partial in a bigger scale imho . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Here is below my last comparison of our photo 3 with my PSB, after correction on the fasteners. For the first time, I have used a manuel setting instead of auto mode with my camera. This way, I could decrease the light on the driver's face and suit. I have noticed when I do a screen capture, I lose details. That is why I avoid using this procedure. If I am very glad with the quality of this manual photo, very detailed on all the car's lenght, that opens new perspectives to me in photography, I am on the other hand quite disappointed by my fasteners. Despite the time spent, the result is not yet totally satisfying, mainly because my inside rings were not large enough. I will try to improve that... P.S: I have elongated my rear leaf springs supports screws, using 1,1 mm Albion Alloys brass tubes... They have now the good lenght. I could leave the natural brass instead of painting them black. Edited October 10, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph adding 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Center part of my wheels fasteners improved, mix of satin and gloss varnish applied on some areas of the body that were too bright, mat varnish on Bordino’s face and still some other improvements. Through others, the brake cable angle has been improved, by decreasing the height of the rear fasteners. More soon... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Did you see Little Andi´s version in the " Ready for inspection " section ? He followed his own philosophy and created a very nice and impressive model . What´s most interesting for me are the red rims and spokes . I always doubted the black color and now when looking at that model I´m almost convinced that the original could have looked similar . I will also paint the circular brake cases with a metallic color because I cannot see that they were painted on their outsides ( view through the spokes ) Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Dear Hannes, following your suggestion, I have been looking at Little Andi's version. It is a real piece of art. Of course, we know this version is very far from truth, on many aspects. For me, Andi is an artist (very inspired) much more concerned by esthetic beauty than by respect of truth. I would be unable today to do such a job, with such an amazing weathering, as he would probably be unable to do what I did with the Italeri kit, a complete transformation to get the car that ran the Milano G.P in 1927. My work is more technical and respectful to the real car, his one is the one of a poet. I love both approaches, so different. I just regret that, unlike me, he was unable to show the smallest interest for my build and our research work... but it is so! Thank you anyway Hannes! Edited October 11, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Yes , we aim into the same direction , dear Olivier , because we both know that reality is more exciting than the wildest phantasies ! The deeper truth behind an appearance is what matters and the best view at history is to imagine all these persons are still flesh and blood and the surroundings still exist . If you keep the past alive you can learn for the future . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Yes Hannes but more creative approaches are better awarded. And I admit I love this fantasy version from Andi, even if it has nothing to see with history and real shape. It seems that this car has rotted in a non maintened garden, exposed for years to bad weather and to nature resuming its rights. It recalls me something : one of my best friend, furthermore close neighbour, genealogist, had to organise the auction after the death of Gérard Gombert, an old motorcycle champion. His garden was full of old cars, some of them having belonged to stars. You can go on the net to have an idea. I repeat it, I am really impressed by Little Andí’s talent... 2 examples of cars found in "La Gombe" garden: Edited October 12, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph adding 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Behind each creative and real artistic action there is a motive : To understand the world we live in and to grasp the deeper reality behind . It doesn´t matter if you prefer an abstract , symbolic or realistic approach . Little Andi´s interpretation is symbolic and semi-realistic , like Christ , hanging on a cross . These motives are very well known , like pictures and sculptures in the middle ages ,where a skeleton and a young girl can be seen to remind the spectator of the fugitive time . In my opinion the realistic style is not less artistic or creative than other styles . It was abused by the Nazis for instance , that´s why it has a bad reputation today . But it´s the artist behind and his intention what matters . Seen from that point of view , your model is not less creative compared to Andi´s , and in my opinion it´s a greater piece of art because it reveals more than a sentimental and romantic look at the past. Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 This is probably (you never know...) my ultimate photo on this view angle. Look at the brake cable, if you compare with what it was just 2 days ago, it is much much better. Reducing the height of "138D" was not enough, I had to move a bit lower the mounting point on the fastener. In the same time, I have increased the tension of the cable. A correction that I won't do, but that would seem necessary: I have increased the lenght of the rear axle, but not enough. Compare my photo with our photo 3, you will see that the rear wheels should be a bit farer from the body... Too late for me, but not for you! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Comparison with our photo 9. This photo is very interesting, taken after the race. So the windscreen is present, as the exhaust asbestos wrapping, what was of course not the case on photos 1, 2, 3, and 28. I post it again here for a better perception: Except that my Bordino is smiling (), I am quite glad with the result on this view angle. One more time, the manual setting was used with my Canon Powershot G11, allowing me to decrease the light. The OOB looks a bit like a toy, with this radiator grille, these thick spokes, these big tyres etc...? P.S: John (vontrips), wherever you are, I thank you so much again. How would I have resolved the problem of the tyres without you?? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Comparison with our photo 25: except the steering wheel that should be more right placed, all is OK imho. N.B: this photo seems to contradict what I said above about my rear axle (on the photo 3, it seemed to be still too short). Indeed, on this photo 25 comparison, my rear axle seems to have the good length. A good new... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Updating of the comparison with our photo 28, after my corrections: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 And our photo 1: I was inspired myself from this photo for Bordino's dress, more than from the one on photo 9, taken after the race. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 As for the photo 28, updating of this one, photo 2 VHR: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 I personally feel your model looks more accurate than the car in photo 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 And the comparison with our photo 7A, very interesting as showing the left side on 3/4 front view angle: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Photo 3 comparison updated too: the fuel tank cap should be more flat and its handle a bit longer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Comparison with photo 12 updated too: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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