Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds

[Totally Mad Olivier]

   4/09/1927: 90 years ago, Monza... Pietro Bordino is gonna run in the Milano G.P driving the new Fiat race car, developed secretely for months. There will be a first qualificative race and then a final 🏁. Under a pouring rain, the 806 will win both races. Pity, this first victory will be also the last one, you know the story...

4/09/2017: exactly 90 years later, after months (more than 1 year) of hard research with a group of top level modelers and build, I am about to finish the first accurate model of that legendary car made from a wrong Protar/Italeri kit. Many modelers have built it before, but, as far as we know, none of them has been so far in details and will to get the right shapes. Even the big scale model exposed at the Fiat Torino museum and the one at Rev's institute are wrong.

Other modelers, Hannes, Harvey, Thierry, Roy, Sam and many others will follow and suggest their own personal interpretation, definitely very accurate too. I wish them patience and will to get a convincing model.

I was sure my model would be over for today, but the recent discover of VHR versions made necessary some corrections and improvements of last minute.

Despite all my efforts, especially these last 2 days, my build is not over for this birthday, but it will be in a few days, maybe 1 or 2 weeks, if all goes well.

Yesterday night, I assembled the right bonnet. It is now glued, hiding so many details on which I had been working so hard . But no regret, the left side of the engine will be very visible, and I have many photos of the right side hidden now...

All the best to all the team and... happy birthday to the 806! 

Olivier

 

 

[Hannes]

I´m sure not only Bordino and Salamano but also all mechanics , engineers ,directors and  all tifosi of that time  would be very proud to know that 90 years later a kind and eager physician from South France 

reconstructed their revolutionary car !

At Saturday it was raining during the qualifying in Monza . The qualifying was stopped and there was enough time for the  TV -people to remember this event . Noone did .

In the sterile  VIP -lounge some big  photos can be seen regarding racing events in the 60´s 70´s and 80´s . I could not spot any pics of earlier events . What you can see is rich people sipping their cocktails .

Some say the heroic era of automotive sports ended with our car . I don´t believe this to be true   But I´m sure this spirit does not exist anymore today in our western civilisation.

That´s why it is important  to remember other times and circumstances . If we don´t we will become  slaves of the mighty and our creativity will carry chains .

All the best for all who still attend our great thread    Hannes

 

 

[Hannes]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hannes]

These old postcards of South France are for Olivier to remind  him that these times were not black and white at all !  Congratulations for your model !  Hannes 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thank you so much, Hannes, very kind! I am very lucky living in a beautiful country, the french Riviera, and not far from Italy that we love too, with my wife...

Best regards

Olivier

[Totally Mad Olivier]

1 hour ago, Hannes said:

to remember him that these times were not black and white at a

[Hannes]

I ordered a mini lathe for modelers and I hope it will be sufficient  for plastic and aluminium parts . I won´t need it very often  but for the shafts of my rear axle I don´t see an  alternative .

In my scale they are always 9 mm wide at their beginnings and at  their endings 5mm ,independent of their lenght . I guess I will use alu tubes for the construction .

Many greetings !  Hannes

[NickD]

Rain at Monza always seems less likely than elsewhere so to rain in practice seemed appropriate, at least to us I guess. Today's cars are perhaps not as scary as the 806, but the drivers are no less heroic. I found myself reflecting that several of the drivers would have probably relished giving Pietro a run for his money - Fernando, Lewis, and Max spring to mind. They'd probably just roll up their sleeves, adjust their goggles and climb in... rain or shine

 

Nick

[Hannes]

Most people on this planet would risk their lives  if they had the opportunity to earn millions and millions of dollars and become famous like today´s professional top  drivers .And even they are very rich they don´t pay taxes  in their home countries and live in Monaco instead .

I don´t see any heroism . It´s more likely they get killed or injured when practicing their hobbies like in Michael´s case .   Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

I understand and suscribe to the 2 points of view, despite they are very different. Hannes is right, it is sure conditions have changed a lot and in 1927, drivers were really heroes, many of them lost their life, and a driver like Bordino was definitely not a rich man, despite his talent and his loyalty to Fiat.

And in the same time, can we regret these times where so many drivers lost their life? No, definitely, it is a good thing if the safety of drivers has been improved over the years.

And even if safety conditions are much much better today, it remains a risky job.

And if many people would agree to risk their life to earn the millions dollars like today's champions, all of them don't have the talent, the science of driving the Fernando, Lewis etc. have.

I agree 100% to say many sports today have become before all a big business, beginning with the soccer (football). It is the system that wants that, a famous footballer wins much much more money than a world specialist in medicine, fe. Is it normal? no, definitely no, and despite that, I like watching a good football game... So many things are not logic in this world...

[Hannes]

It´s the human greed which not only destroys the sense of sports but also this planet .Who´s a real hero ? Benoist of course and the members of the Weisse Rose , some students who were in resistance against Hitler . Does Captain Scott or Earnest Shackelton belong to the heroes ? Charles Darwin ?Neill Armstrong ? Bill Kane in High Noon ? Not only talent or bravery makes a hero . Gladiators for instance are no heroes for me because their sense of life was to entertain idiots . A hero is someone who risks his life for saving others or is fighting for high ideals like freedom . The most important heroes can be found in science like Giordano Bruno , Galileo and others who risked their lives for the truth .

Every soldier in combat who saves a comrade´s life  is as greater hero than all the famous sport stars today  and I highly doubt them to be good models for our children and grandchildren. In a few decades formula one races will only exist in a virtual surrounding . Brave new world !

Many greetings !  Hannes

[NickD]

Hannes

 

I hope my comment did not strike a nerve. I think my point was slightly different. The three I mentioned and a number of others I could think of, would do it anyway, money or no money, just as their forebears did.

 

Regards

Nick

[Hannes]

Dear Nick , it´s not about the drivers , it´s about the corrupt system behind not only regarding sports .   The sport only reflects and magnifies what´s wrong in our civilisation . There´s too much money in  the hands of a few people who believe this world belongs to them . Panem et circenses  just to distract the interest of the masses from the real problems and earning more and more money is the strategy  of these persons .  It makes me sad because I like motorsport if it´s a fair and open competition . The drivers are victims too even if they probably  don´t realize it . 

The internal combustion engine  has no great future  and the money for it´s further development  is a waste imho .  If we analyze a construction that´s been established 90 years ago we could call it technical archeology . And that´s a lot of fun . But the situation in our days is a different one . Of course I still watch formula one like Olivier watches football games . But  I have  a very mixed feeling when doing so .

Many greetings !  Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

To represent the hinge mounting point to the body (rear part of the hinge) and the radiator case (front part), I will take my inspiration from this enlargement on the Centro Storico Mef:

[Hannes]

Dear Olivier , I doubt there was a giant bolt like this on our car !  Most likely the take-up was welded to the support or there were small scews !  Dont forget that the Mef´s bonnets are much bigger and heavier compared to our alu version! 

Many greetings   Hannes

[Roy vd M.]

Due to the recent findings, the following pictures have been added to the first post:

 

- New Photo 1AAA;

- Photo 2 replaced;

- New Photo 2 as amended by Hannes;

- Photo 3 replaced;

- Photo 4A replaced.

[Hannes]

Dear Roy , many thanks !  Our thread is the best in the world regarding the Fiat vettura 504 con motore 406 !

Many greetings !  Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

1 hour ago, Hannes said:

I doubt there was a giant bolt like this on our car

No, Hannes, don't worry, I won't put such a big bolt, but little ones as you suggest. 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Above (21/8 p. 164), I said the VHR version of photo 2 confirmed Robin Lous assumption about the rivets along the body at the limit with the bonnets. I see 6 ones.

But this enlargement shows also that there are tiny rivets also on the edge of the fairing, alternating irregularly with "black points". Up to now, we could not see these rivets, and where wondering about "empty areas":

 

 

We have a series of 6 rivets imho on the top of the fairing, breaking the alternating rivets/ "black holes". What do we have on left side? only little rivets? also some black holes (probably weld points), we don't have the answer in the lack of a VHR photo of left side...

 

 

[Hannes]

[Hannes]

My new mini-lathe just arrived . I´m aware that this is no highly professional tool but for my purposes ( working with plastic and alu parts ) it should be sufficient . We will see ...
The black holes could possibly be hollow rivets or just punched -in holes and bended on the other side just for fixation purposes .

Many greetings !   Hannes

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Congratulations Hannes. You will tell me if such a tool is really very useful for modelers like us. 

[CrazyCrank]

Hi all.

 

Dear Hannes, this mini-lathe looks like my first 4-tools-in-1 sold since several years by the Austrian brand UNIMAT: UNIMAT BASIC (http://www.thecooltool.com/en/products/unimat-1/basic/)

 

The first UNIMAT Basic were (and are always) made with plastic and aluminium, like yours, but had a very poor quality and a quasi zero or close to zero precision

However, I could achieve with it my engine-turning on the engine and firewall's tap-ground alu plates.

 

Your tool has the same shapes of my UNIMAT Basic, but seems heavier and of a better quality (You can compare them on this Alibaba webpage: https://guide.alibaba.com/shopping-guides/hobby-metal-lathe.html)

 

Anyways, I think you'll have to tighten strongly the attachments between parts, and fix your lathe on a heavy wood (for instance) tray.

Many greatings and congrats...

 

CC

[CrazyCrank]

Dear Olivier

 

I wonder if the black holes are not rivets holes, let free after the rivets accidentally (or not) jumped ?

[harveyb258]

Hi guys, I think the "missing rivets" are exactly that!! Nothing else there....just a hole! These HR pics are of the prototype/test car, so maybe the mechanics only put in just enough rivets to keep it in place!

 

Cheers, H