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Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds


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Is there anybody who could help regarding my problems with photobucket ? They removed all of my pics and now I should pay for their service !Photobucket earns it´s money by selling copyrights of our photos and I should pay for that ??? That´s what I call extortion !  If somebody knows more about this  , please let me know !

Many greetings !  Hannes

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Don't panic yet. They try this every so often. Also the image says you have used up your bandwidth

Bandwidth is the amount of gigabites your photos use; if you have 1000 gb and 100 people look at 10 of your photos that = 1000 so you have reached your limit and your photos disappear for a while.  In a day or so, or maybe two or three the gb will reset itself and your photos will magically re-appear

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Dear Olivier , for the Protar kit the glass for the instruments was made out of thick clear plastic discs and they had a lense-like form on their upper sides .

This  caused an magnifying glass effect  and voila ! there were greater instrument panels on a small spot ! 

It´s one of the few things Italeri made better than  Protar !

Robin showed some beautiful housings for the instruments . I wonder what he´s doing ? Maybe he´s on vacancies or he suffers from the well-known modeler´s desease : Never to be satisfied with the result and getting tortured by that . But this is not the sense of our beautiful hobby !

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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5 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

Now that the question of the existence of strips is decided, the problem is to know if such strips were present up to the exit of the exhausts. Some of you probably have an idea, photos, to answer. Because none of our docs, pity, will bring the reply...

On this car, fe (I don't remember what car it is), the wrapping is partial, only in the middle part...

I really need to determine this quickly, because doing this wrapping will be my next step...

Thanks for your kind help!

C10GaY.jpg

 

P.S: I made an estimation of the width of strips, I consider that 4 mm width would be OK at 1/12. This means 48 mm width at 1/1 scale. Here too, a confirmation will be welcome.

 

I think that with this size, you're probably very close to the truth: Look here

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Oh Olivier, another thing

 

Now I've contributed to convince you that there was a wrapping on the right exhaust tube, you have to decide if there was one too on the left exhaust tube !

Remember that if you do not see it, it's not a proof that it didn't exist !!

 

Logically, there was a wrapping on both left and right tubes considering the function of this asbestos bandage ....

"J' dis ça...j'dis rien " :think:

 

Edited by CrazyCrank
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A major function of the exhaust wraping was to protect the driver and or riding mechanic from burns* on the pipe. Could Bordino have touched the other pipe from his side of the car; maybe he could

 

*In 1933 Sir Henry 'Tim' Birkin died of septecemia caused by a burn from the exhaust on his Maserati.  The size of the burn was about the size of a 2 Euro coin. Dr Benjafield who was his friend and racing team captain had friends who were scientists; one of whom was experimenting with penicillan and needed test subjects, but Tim Birkin did not tell anyone about the burn until it was too late. Time from getting the burn to death - about 3 weeks. [some sources differ] Mechanics memories said there was no cover or tape on one exhaust because it was not needed as the driver could not reach it; but he did, he leaned over to talk with a mechanic during a pit-stop

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6 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

P.S: I made an estimation of the width of strips, I consider that 4 mm width would be OK at 1/12. This means 48 mm width at 1/1 scale. Here too, a confirmation will be welcome.

48mm, I turn into almost 2 inches, wider than modern tape which is about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches or  about 40 to 42 mm, so 48 mm is A OK :yes:

Usually the tape only runs past, around, the driver's area, ending well before the tail.

In my model [above] I have the tape right to the fish-tail as I was making this model car to look like one a friend owns and that is how he has the tape.

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As I mentioned above photo 4 A shows a wrapped structure of the exhaust pipe imho  and the stains we can see are the left-overs of the heavy rain and will vanish soon after the start in my opinion .

Many greetings !  Hannes

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oopsie; Olivier, just spotted your work on the wheels/tyres. You put a small disc on the valve. This is actually a thin nut. Half the thickness of a normal nut

Tyres had inner tubes, like bicycles still have, the valve from the inner tube sticks through the metal wheel rim and a nut is screwed on to lock it in place. If the valve stem is not locked the inner tubes does what we call 'walks' as the vehicle is driven, this puts strain on the valve which can pull out of the metal rim or even rip out of the inner tube

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Thank you Fred, Thierry and Hannes for your help. Yes, logically, there will be strips on the left exhaust of my model. The comment of Fred about Sir Henri Birkin was interesting.

Last question about these strips (for now), their color. The slate grey is a kind of medium grey, but should it be a metallic grey (in this case, the XF 56 Tamiya, fe, would be very good) or a non metallic one (in this case, a mix of German grey XF 63 and light grey XF 66 would be good too)?

I made my wrapping with masking sticker sheet Tamiya (1 mm grid type) on the right exhaust (rear part). More soon...

Hannes, I don't know about Robin, I just can regret (and I did on the thread above) that he left us. I hope he is O.K. But now, I begin to be used to see people following and then leaving a thread. I regret that, personally, of course, even if they have certainly their reasons.

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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The rear part of my right exhaust pipe - thinned in height and especially in width - has been wrapped with a 4 mm masking tape. The asbestos color has been reproduced with Tamiya Metallic Grey (XF-56), applied with the airbrush. The gaps have been underlined with a black wash, applied with a fine paintbrush, irregularly (more in the curves). The main problem is to know how this exhaust pipe appeared the morning, before the 2 races to which the car took part, knowing that it had been raining a lot that day. The only photo we have showing them clearly is our photo 9, taken later, after the races, and so, the strips have nearly disappeared, soaking wet. But I suppose they were approximately like that in the morning:

 

69A6lZ.jpg

 

igv6od.jpg

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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Dear Olivier , I´m sorry I have to say that , but with this exhaust pipe you will ruin the whole appearance of your model . I gave you some good advices but you  ignored them as many times before  . You cannot achieve a convincing shape just by filing the existing parts down in a hurry! You will have to add material to the required spots and file where necessary .

My points of criticism are : The pipe still is way oversized and must get slimmer .The medium part should be almost straight . The frontal part is too arched and should become more angular with a straight part between the bends . The whole wrapping does not look convincing for me , there should be more overlappings and the color and texture of the tape don´t look good either .

Maybe a matt white with grey / beige  accents will do .

I hope , you don´t get me wrong !  I said this not to critisize you but to help you to get a good model ! On page 34 of the gangshow you can see my altered pipes and I´m still not satisfied with the result and have to do some alterings too !

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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Some minutes ago photobucket showed my photos again and now they are vanished .  I hope they will reappear and you will understand the following descriptions .

The chassis rails are connected by 8 cross-beams ( number 9 for the rear absorbers is just a construction help ). The duty of the 4 larger ones was to stiffen the chassis and for two of them also to bear the engine .3 of the remaining struts were holding the suspensions of the leaf springs , one was part of the brake system .

I´m happy I decided to construct this partial scratchbuild because now the foundation is created for further proceeding .

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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The problem is that if you want to order a thermic protection for your vintage car today, as asbestos is forbidden from a long time, you find other materials that may have different colors (including slate grey). I made research unsuccesfully to find photos of asbestos wrapping on old race cars...

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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4 hours ago, Hannes said:

I gave you some good advices but you  ignored them as many times before 

Didn't you promise, Hannes, not to talk to me as a teacher to a pupil?

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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A teacher usually does not give friendly advices . For the future I won´t post any comments regarding your construction anymore and instead of drawing scetches I will focus on my own construction .Because noone else still participates active on the thread I guess it will be over soon anyways .  Hannes

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The problem with you, Hannes, it is that if we don't do the things exactly as you think, then you can be very hurtful. I respect your philosophy as modeler, very turned on construction aspects, even when things are not visible. Mine is a bit different, more pragmatic, even if very demanding too on shapes and realism. Maybe I will reconsider my exhaust (I will make a comparison to check it, but it didn't seem to me so awful and wrong). But it is the way you talk that is very irritating, as if you were holding the absolute truth... As far as I know, I must be the first modeler to represent this wrapping on a 806, and a bit more incouraging comments would be appreciate, what does not exclude constructive and respectful comments.

 

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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Getting ignored is hurtful too ! You didn´t even ask  how to transform these awful shaped kit´s pipes into a convincing form ! My scetch was liked though but no  further discussion was following .

You always believe what you can see is right . That´s not the case ! I´ve been altering these parts already and that´s why I gave you some important hints . Instead of asking me you just made your own thing . Of course I made mistakes too and I´m not some kind of modeler god . But judging forms and dimensions is part of my profession .

What would you say if I tell you : I can do Olivier´s job easily and I know what to do , I just take a pair of pliers and rip out the tooth ? Of course you would be angry or amused .

You are a real master for detailling works but sometimes you don´t see the greater relations . I think it´s not necessary to  remind you  regarding following advices of theoretical nature that misguided you . ( engine under bonnets .for instance )

I´m aware it´s not usual for a kit´s modeler to modify a kit in this radical way . I ´ve been visiting the gangshow to find followers of my idea to reconstruct the real car .

You were the only one so far who realized it and this does deserve respect .

But please don´t spoil your efforts on the last meters by working too hasty .

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes
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Hasty?? I spent a lot of time these last days on the exhaust question, before going on. At a certain point, indeed, I feel I can do the step. Even taking such precautions, sometimes I am wrong (the challenge is so hard), and in this case, I can reconsider my work. It is my own way to approach the truth. About the color of asbestos, I ask only for a thing: that someone brings me the right color with certainty. As I said to you, I made deep research to be sure of the aspect and color, unsuccesfully, on the net. Of course, I found many wrappings, especially on motorbikes, but how to know how was the 806 one?  And about the shape of my exhaust, it is much slimmer than all what modelers did up to now, as far as I know. Should it be much more? I am not sure, but I am gonna make an objective comparison. You know me, if I have to redo, I will, but read again your comment: "with this exhaust pipe you will ruin the whole appearance of your model". Don't you think this comment is a bit severe and discouraging? this comment "you're gonna ruin...", you made it several times, and however, I think my build is not so far from truth. Make such merciless comparisons for your build as I did, maybe you'll be surprised, even if you have very good eyes and talent in sculpture and drawing. 

I know I did not follow all your hints (I followed many of them) but, one more time, I don't consider myself as a pupil, who would have to follow all teacher Hannes recommends. I don't understand the comparison with my work, we are building a kit, not having a sculpture lesson. Each one, with his own skills - that evolves -, goes on doing the best possible. 

If when you do a scetch, we must consider it is an order, OK, stop doing scetches. 

But remember, tolerance is a great virtue.

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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I must admit that indeed, as Hannes said, my exhaust is still too height, especially on its front part (even if in the photo 28, there is no wrapping that increases a bit the height). So, as I always did when it appeared I was wrong, I will redo this step. I am sorry if my words overtook my thoughts, I know Hannes is full of good intentions. 

Notice that my heat shield is not so bad (imho...)

 

rV2Wr0.png

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