Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) In fact, I am not sure any brand was visible on cans of oil and other products at that time, except Pirelli, which name was frequently associated to Fiat and had ever understood the importance of advertising. The sponsoring and exposition of brands everywhere had to appear later. I did not find a lot of photos with mechanists of that time. There is this photo in Sebastien's book on p. 104: the 805 of F. Nazzaro during a provisioning. Edited June 26, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Advertising for motor products and cigarettes was everywhere. At a race it was confined to pages in the programme, leaflets or newspapers but also very large banners hanging on fences, off trees, on buildings round the circuit. At that time petrol could only be bought in 1 gallon tins at hardware or chemist shops, at the local farrier or blacksmiths, only just coming into Europe was the tall roadside petrol pump. Every gallon tin had the fuel name impressed into the metal with the name highlited in a different colour of paint- these tins are highly collectible now Racing teams were forbidden from advertising on the cars. In my club we follow the old rules; no advertising or sponsorship is allowed to be on the cars. These are the old and still in use regulations for vintage car racing National racing teams tended to use products from their own country; even if they had to transport hundreds of gallons of petrol with them to a race That thing on the back of the car is a rapid refueller funnel; open at the top they could pour petrol from 1 gallon tins, several at a time. Such a device, but slightly smaller is still used during the Isle of Man Motorcycle T.T. and Grand Prix races Those two men at the car are not mechanics; they are the driver and riding mechanic or 2nd driver. In many of the early races the car driver had to change the tyres and/or do the refuelling. The riding mechanic helped if the race was one where a mechanic was carried during the race. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 The Tamiya set also only shows drivers or riding mechanics ( glasses ! ). Not only Bordino died at the Alessandra accident , his riding mechanic Lasagne also deceased by his injuries RIP Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 4 hours ago, Hannes said: Not only Bordino died at the Alessandra accident , his riding mechanic Lasagne also deceased by his injuries ?? Bordino was not alone in the Bugatti? Wasn't it a single seater? 6 hours ago, Black Knight said: Every gallon tin had the fuel name impressed into the metal with the name highlited in a different colour of paint- these tins are highly collectible now Thank you Fred for the interesting infos and corrections to my comment above. Do you have an idea of the brand Fiat did use? Photos of tins welcome, of course... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Dear Olivier , Bordino was thrown out of the car and most likely drowned in a nearby river and rider mechanic Giovanni Lasagne remained in the Bugatti with a skull fracture and died 2 days later by his injuries Many greetings ! Hannes Edited June 26, 2017 by Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I finally found a figure that could represent Felice Nazarro with his long coat ! This would be a world´s novelty : A mad physician using drugs to transform gets transformed into an retired racing driver in the 20 ´s ! Just making fun , dear Olivier ! Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) I got today from England the steel balls I had ordered on ebay. But, if there were 20 balls in 1,5 mm, there were only... 1 in 1 mm and 1 in 2 mm!! I had not understood (and couldn't imagine buying just 1 ball in 1 mm for nearly the same price than 20, about 6£, shipping coast not included!!). I had ordered from another seller 50 steel balls in 3 mm, for nearly the same price. A difference from 1 to 50!! So, I could glue one 1,5 mm ball to the bottom of my stick, that so is now over, but I could glue only one 1 mm ball to my stars. I just sent a mail to the seller to ask a commercial gesture. I would like to have 20 balls in 1 and 2 mm, for this build and next ones. Hope I will get satisfied and be able to go on with these stars very soon... P.S: the stars are not shining enough, compared with the steel ball, I have applied (after the photo) a thin coat of Super Metallic Chrome Silver, and the result is better. I will publish a photo when the stars will be OK, with all their steel balls... Edited June 26, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) I come back on the question of exhaust pipes, as it is the step where I am now. Photo 1: the red arrows seem to show a kind of wrapping. We know these wrappings were frequent, and are still visible on some motorbikes. At this time, asbestos was used. The advantage of wrapping was probably to avoid burns for the mechanists but also to modulate the temperature of gazes. I am surprised not to see more clearly this wrapping everywhere else. For example, the wrapping of the steering wheel is more clearly visible on photo 3 or this photo 9. The green arrow shows a weird connection between the 2 parts of the exhaust pipe, needing an enlargement... Photo 2: Enlargement of the connection. We know Bordino had a little collision during the trials, and for example, the front rod, supposed to be body color, has probably been replaced at the last time by a bare metal one. It seems that this connection has a bit suffered too. Furthermore, I am surprised, on such an enlargement, not to see any limit around the strips of an eventual wrapping. The question is: how to represent this exhaust pipe? I think I will use masking tape to wrap my pipe, but I will apply Mr Surfacer on most of it, just leaving the same areas (red arrows) with visible limits. The color of asbestos is slate grey, and the pipes under (we nearly won't see them under the wrap) will be darker, anthracite... Any suggestion or correction welcome.. P.S: I sent a mail to Sebastien to ask him about the brand used by Fiat for their oils, I am waiting for his reply. I knows much about the engines, but I am not sure he will be able to help me on such a question... P.S2: I have ordered the Tamiya 1/12 Tool set. The idea of "diorama" is taking shape... Not a real one, but a kind of scene. Edited June 27, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Imho, the exhaust pipe should be 5 mm height (instead of 6 mm on the kit) and 2,3 mm width (the kit's one is about 3,8 mm!), except at its bottom (exit) where it gets a bit enlarged (around 2,9 mm). The photo 7 shows imho this light enlargement on the last cms of the pipe left side. Edited June 27, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) I want to add a remark regarding my post above ( Lasagne´s death ) : The Bugatti 35 series ( 4 cylinders ) were double- seated as almost all Bugatti racing cars till WW 2 Ettore had always claimed that his racing cars , based on touring models , were available for everyone There´s no enlightment at the end of the exhaust pipes , there´s an additional strenghtening sheet wrapped around the end imho . Hannes Edited June 27, 2017 by Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 22 minutes ago, Hannes said: enlightment You mean enlargement, Hannes. It is possible, indeed but the edges on the exit of the exhaust pipe on photo 3 remains very thin, that's why I am not sure there was a strengthening sheet wrapped around the end, as you suggest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Sorry , yes enlargement is correct . As it seems the very end shows a funnel-like form as we also could see on photo 8 B.I´m also not completely sure if there was a strenghtening sheet and if it was covered by the bandages . I guess there only was a welded wire around the end . Photo 8 also shows the real shape of the frontal bends imho . Many greetings ! Hannes Edited June 27, 2017 by Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 On model cars I use the fabric adhesive medical bandage [known as plasters in the UK] the fabric represents the fireproof bandage very well. Then I paint it white which smooths it a bit. Lime wash was usually applied to the exhaust bandage which made it white which then rapidly discoloured to dirty white/grey on a 1/32 Aston Martin Ulster; 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 What a cute little car ! Thanks for the recommendation ! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) I admit I have doubts about the strips around the exhaust. I am not an expert, as you know, but: - as I said above, the only area where there really seems to be is on right side, behind Bordino (photo 9). - the kind of "M" we see in front of the heat shield (photo 9) could be as well stripes - the exhaust is very very close from the body. I am even not sure there is a space. Wrapping would have been done necessary before assembling the exhaust and the heat shield - on left side (photo 4, 7), no tape visible at all. But, in the same time, the aspect and the color of that exhaust is different from what it was on photos 1, 2, 3, 28, taken before painting and at least some days (and more probably weeks) before the race. On these presentation photos, the surface is more regular, with more distinct angles, and the color is darker (nearly black). Is it possible that the asbestos was applied not with strips, but in another way (paintbrush, airbrush, etc.)? Anyway, personally, I will represent what I see. It is my philosophy as modeler. Try to understand if possible but not extrapolate. Here, it means not put strips where I don't see strips... The photo shows that, even applied with a lot of care, the strips are necessary visible nearly every where. They are very visible too on Fred Aston Martin above. Edited June 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Hi Olivier and all: I think the connection between front right exhaust tube and rear one, where you've put your green arrow, is not altered. The best explanation I see actually is: - this connection wasn't perfectly hermetic... - burnt fuel gases have escaped at this level.... - they have blackened hte asbestos wrapping, particularly more at the top and bottom of this connection - the blackened parts of the wrapping seems to be a constriction of the rear end of the front tube, due to the (relatively) poor quality of the photo, where the boundaries of this blackened section seems to have disappeared , particularly at the bottom, giving you an illusion ! A little drawing to show you what I mean: [/url 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) The bezels are good (just this once) and so, I use them. The photo etched parts were glued upside down (no interest to have the wrong relief, I prefer a flat surface for my decals). A meticulous scissoring is required to remove the clear part around the decals. I even had not to paint the dashboard. The handling when I had decreased its thickness (a lot) made a "natural patina" that I like. Not unpleasant when things are a bit more simple, from time to time... Edited June 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Thanks Thierry for your comment. Your explanation about burnt gazes escaping at the non hermetic connection is very convincing. But you suggest there is a wrapping. How do you explain we don't see it, except on a few cms? (the quality of the photo is not so bad that this could explain we don't see any strip imho) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Thanks Thierry for your comment. Your explanation about burnt gazes escaping at the non hermetic connection is very convincing. But you suggest there is a wrapping. How do you explain we don't see it, except on a few cms? (the quality of the photo is not so bad that this could explain we don't see any strip imho) Sorry Olivier ! There is a wrapping, as you can see clearly on some sections of front and rear tube, and due to the poor quality of the picture, which has a lot of grain, the most part of this wrapping is blurred and you (and me, and others) can't see the dark oblique lines of the overlaps ! Edited June 28, 2017 by CrazyCrank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, CrazyCrank said: Sorry Olivier ! There is a wrapping, as you can see clearly on some sections of front and rear tube Don't be sorry, Thierry, I have not yet glued my exhausts, so I am still in time to apply this wrapping. I just need to be convinced. Could you post an enlargement of these "sections on front and rear tube on which you see these oblique strips", please? (except behind the driver where indeed they appear clearly to me) Thanks Edited June 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) The stains on the pipes as we can see on photo 4 are also an indication for a wrapped pipe . Wet metal which is about to get dry would look different imho . My chassis now is completed , I´m about to do the final works and I will show some nice pics tomorrow Hannes Edited June 28, 2017 by Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Strips or not strips, that is the question... After CC comment, I had a new look (with magnifying glasses) at our photo 9, and... I changed my mind. The red arrows show all areas where we can see (or imagine...) there were. We know it had been raining a lot on that day, and this explains (more than the quality of the photo, imho) that we don't see them better (the photo 9 has been taken after the race, the driver's suit certifies that point...). The problem is that we don't have a good quality photo of the car before the race. The strips would certainly have been much more visible... Edited June 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph c 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Now that the question of the existence of strips is decided, the problem is to know if such strips were present up to the exit of the exhausts. Some of you probably have an idea, photos, to answer. Because none of our docs, pity, will bring the reply... On this car, fe (I don't remember what car it is), the wrapping is partial, only in the middle part... I really need to determine this quickly, because doing this wrapping will be my next step... Thanks for your kind help! P.S: I made an estimation of the width of strips, I consider that 4 mm width would be OK at 1/12. This means 48 mm width at 1/1 scale. Here too, a confirmation will be welcome. Edited June 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 On his bezels, Italeri touches clear rounds (when it is good, you must say it too...). Pity, the middle and especially the left clear bezels (5 and 4CF) are a bit too small. I could have removed them and replaced, but I would take a risk with my decals (I put a thin coat of Micro Kristal Klear to glue the bezels) and honnestly, this won't be visible at all dashboard in place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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