NickD Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Olivier, Happy Birthday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Up to now, I used to consider that the Hartford s.a were shiny black (and I painted them so, with X1 bright black enamel Tamiya). Hannes suggested that the edges were metal color. CC talked about a "light color"... It is a fact that, on every photo where we can see them, their edges seems to be light. But we know too that bright black may give the same effect under the light... Exactly, Olivier, because, on these old black and white photos, our eyes essentially see the contrasts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I made this "black and white " version to illustrate what we said above. Finally, I wonder if I will not leave my shock absorbers shiny black... And you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Thanks, Nick 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: I made this "black and white " version to illustrate what we said above. Finally, I wonder if I will not leave my shock absorbers shiny black... And you? It's a neverending debate and nobody can answer the question, Olivier. When you look at recent photos of 20's and 30's race cars, you can see black dampers or same-color-of-the-car dampers. BUT, these are recent pictures, taken after restoration in museums or in private collections. The real photos, when they exist, are black ans white, and it's impossible to be affirmative with the real color Personally, when I'll build MY INTERPRETATION of the 806's, I'll paint the dampers and spring-leaves, the same color as the frame rails, and i've not yet chosen between satin black and itialian red Edited June 4, 2017 by CrazyCrank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Happy Birthday Olivier.....hope you have a good one mate! Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Robin Lous said: Hannes...you see mesh, because you want to see it. Dear Robin , I guess you refer to the Schiaparelli - effect . In the 19. century the astronomer Schiaparelli saw channels on Mars through his telescope . Of course there are none as we know today . I know this effect and I try to avoid it as good as possible also for professional reasons . There´s a better version of photo 21 in our PM-thread . If you look at the region left of the 1-number you will see vertical lines outside the region of the radiator .. I printed this photo out in DIN A 3 and these structures can clearly be seen imho. Olivier , you own the original , so please have a look too ! Another interesting detail on the enlargement of photo 9 are the frontal tips, of the chassis rails . No color can be seen on them , but some cm behind in the region of the absorber the rail seems to be painted . Most likely the frontal cross-beam was an exchange part and there was not enough time to repaint the whole region . Many greetings ! Hannes Edited June 4, 2017 by Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Dear Olivier, regarding the dampers, I would be very tempted to leave the edges bare metal as I think it would provide a nice contrast in a 'dark' region of the car. Just my opinion, of course, but so much of what we can see on the many photos/blueprints is open to interpretation so do what makes you happy! Each one of us will have a 'far' more accurate and aesthetically pleasing model than protar/italeri could have ever realised! Cheers, H 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I finally got my new printer set up this morning so have had a nice chill-out resizing and printing out blueprints etc....I'm surrounded by them! I can now start carving the buck and fabricating the chassis!! Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Thanks Harvey! My mate is fine, it's my little lovely wife! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Dear Harvey , Nick´s side-view and top- view are a very good reference for constructing the chassis . But please be careful regarding the lenght of the tips ! Drilling the holes for the front and rear cross-beams should be done after the construction of bodywork , bonnets and radiator case . I would leave the tips 2-3 mm longer because it´s much easier to shorten a metal part than difficult elongation works ! The wheelbase should be the foundation of your construction imho . If you intend to use some kit´s parts like tyres , rims and steering wheel a wheelbase of 22 cm seems suited imho . Cardboard patterns of side and top-view in the required scale are very helpful ! Many greetings! Hannes Edited June 4, 2017 by Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Thanks Hannes, I'll bear that in mind. I've taken my scale for the size of protar [VT] tyres which gives me a scale of 1: 11.35. This translates to a wheelbase of 211.45mm and track width at 114.5mm. Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Dear Harvey , that´s OK , but there is a problem imho : The Protar tyres are too large regarding their inner diameter imho and therefore the rims too big in my opinion .Because the Protar tyres suit to an exact 1/12 scale regarding their outer diameters they probably would be too small for your chosen scale too ! You could avoid this problem by sanding the kit´s Mef tyres at the required spots and use the scale 1:10,9 . But of course it´s up to you . Vive la difference as the French people say ! Many greetings ! Hannes Edited June 4, 2017 by Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Happy birthday Olivier 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Thanks Sam 😎! How are you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The brass-scratchbuild of my chassis rear part will get connected with the frontal parts after a firm connection with the brass bottom plate . The first 3 cross-beams are removable and still need to get altered . The 4. cross-beam ( mounting points for the absorbers ) did not exist in reality but I will need it for a while for stability and construction reasons . The triangular parts around the last cross-beam need to get altered in a radical way and these works will be done after fixing the bottom plate . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 PC problems or photo bucket´s fault , sorry for posting twice Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I've been promising pictures of the steering arm for a while. I had thought the agreement good a few days ago. Now I am less sure. There are some tweaks I could and probably will do, the shape is not smooth enough. However, rather than delay further here is what I have. First up is a direct comparison with Drawing 2. Basic shape is similar but there is a significant lateral displacement. This may be real but I am not completely convinced. The bracket by the upright and the quality of the pictures make drawing conclusions a bit difficult. That said, the agreement is quite consistent. Next up 3 pictures for comparison Photo 21 - this is the clearest view. It looks like the lower edge should be longer in this shot. The edge is quite rounded which makes accurate placement difficult. Photo 7 Photo 10 Finally a true side and front view. Front view first. Appears to be a bit of a twist. Not convinced that is real. Sideview Hope this is of interest Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Thanks a lot , dear Nick ! As we can see on drawing 2 the frontal arm ends directly above the center of the front axle ( top -view ) If you could confirm this situation it would be very helpful for all of us . Drawing 1 , the master model and the kit show this end ( where the steering rod is connected ) far before the axle . The shape itself is not the most important issue imho , but the situation is crucial for our construction ! Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Nice job, Nick and Hannes. Hannes, I had forgotten this strut inside the suspension part, I will add it. About the steering, my opinion is that our photos show clearly a different shape compared with Drawing 2. As you suggested, Hannes, maybe Massimino modified it after the race because of the problems met with the front axle. And because of this different shape, more opened angle, the situation of its end can't be above the front axle, it is imho more frontal, but less than on the "master model", on which the crescent is very wide opened, like on the kit. About that assumption of Massimino's modif, I found back this drawing (Hannes, I remember you wanted to see it, it was on p. 60 of the thread)... Edited June 7, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Let´s remember what Massimino told Rogliatti in his 1967 interview . He said : The front axle , made out of 3 parts was a novelty at that time because our car was a low-rider compared with other contemporary cars . What does this mean ? One of the consequences was the situation of the cross-steering rod ( lenght : 1129 mm ) above the axle . If we look at other racing cars in the 20´s this rod is usually situated under the axle´s level . He also mentioned the flexibility of the axle to a certain degree . In my opinion the axle , when under stress , tends to " push " this rod together . If it´s under the axle it tends to tear this rod apart . Massimino´s alterings should fix this " push " - effect imho and it´s very plausible that there were alterings regarding the lever system imho Many greetings ! Hannes. PS : If the lenght of the rod was 1129 mm , how wide was the track of the wheels ? Compare with photo 12 ! Edited June 7, 2017 by Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Nick´s enlargement of photo 21 also shows the mesh behind the grille´s spokes imho . So there are channels on Mars ! Hannes Edited June 7, 2017 by Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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