Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Dear Hannes, first of all, I want to insist on the fact that I appreciate a lot your contribution to this thread, even if, pity, it is often difficult for me to understand 100% of what is in your mind. I made this comparison photo, using masking tape, to check my body and frame, while you seemed to say all what not OK. The defect I notice - and maybe that is what you meant - is that I cut too much frame, so that the bend that the frame makes is too backward (around 5 mm). I will have to add a portion of plastic card to get it better. Did you see something else that is not correct? Thank you Olivier 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Taken from Sebastien's book, this excellent paper, written after Fiat debacle in 1924... (published with his kind authorization). Sorry, it's in french... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Dear Olivier , the point where your long green arrow shows is where the frame bends to a slightly upwards direction. The distance between that point and the beginning of the bodywork is much too long imho !Compare it with our photos ! Also look at the beginning of the bottom panel below ! This means ,your bodywork has the right dimensions but the frame should bend upwards about 6-7 mm after where it bends on your model .If you can see it , please try again to understand my remarks ! If there are still questions , please ask me again ! It´s always a pleasure for me , if I can help you! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Thank you so much Hannes now I understand well. I will try to make the necessary corrections... All the best Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) Do not shrink too much your shrimp, Olivier, it wouldn't get anything to see Edited January 15, 2017 by CrazyCrank 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Chaps, How do the corrections shown in Hannes' figure above compare to the modified Drawing 2 that Roy produced and I campared through Photogrammetry. You are right that we are not building drawing 2. However, we have spent a lot of time checking Drawing 2 and the revisions outlined by Roy seem to be good. So, if it has not already been done, could I suggest that some simple measurements of the critical measurements from the amended Drawing 2 together with Hannes' excellent sketch above, would confirm exactly what the dimensions should be. On a different topic and a purely personal view All the senior directors I have come across are concerned about issues that are much bigger than a steering vibration. They would jsut tell the engineers to sort the problem, and be surprised and then probably angry if they didn't. Agnelli clearly had some big business issues on his mind around that time. The regulations were changing. Against this background I would go with Sam's analysis. If he had bigger fish to fry, focus would be important to him. If GP cars were not a priority killing them off would ensure the team focussed on wheat he wanted and stopped wasting effort trying to restore something they were clearly passionate about. Politicians explain decisions in many ways, some may or may not relate to reality. Against this background, Drawing 2 as drawn would be a study based on the 1927 car in the expectation that it was going to race again. If the extra race did not happen, presumably Agnelli's attention was already elsewhere. The change in regulations made a perfect time to stop. Distruction of the car made the change of direction permanent. It has been done since - very publically. The UK have done it twice with military aircraft, the TSR2 and the MR4. The latter was erradicated completely so no-one could change their minds. There was no emotion from the politicians about the distruction of magnificent machines, or the utter waste of resource represented, they did it anyway for reasons that worked for them. Hope that is of interest Regards Nick 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 In my scetch above I forgot to show the need of lowering the whole bodywork . But this complex should be discussed in connection with an altered frame . Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Taken from Sebastien's book, this excellent paper, written after Fiat debacle in 1924... (published with his kind authorization). Sorry, it's in french.. @Olivier de St Raph Dear Olivier, Am very glad to read this article which confirms what sources on my side say, about Sen. Agnelli & Nicola Romeo animosity and competition during this period. Not only on race tracks. Of course there were other strong Italian brands ; Isotta, Lancia, Maserati with many ups and downs. But Fiat and Alfa were the most significant. Indeed as the article says, the name ALFA as a car manufacturer first appeared in 1910, but the origin of the car company dates further back to 1906 founded by Mr A. Darracq. ( french with Italian investors ). We have seen the name Darracq actually appearing on this thread of not mistaken. PS: Leslyanne/Paul are supposed to send me the coordinates any time. i am stand by. @Hannes dear Hannes THANK YOU for taking the effort to draw and sketch your ideas !! Please much more of the same... it is worth it for all of us to understand your great insight and talent to instinctually optimize form and your understanding of car technology and ALL for OUR good cause. cheers to all Sam Edited January 15, 2017 by sharknose156 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, CrazyCrank said: Do not shrink too much your shrimp, Olivier, it wouldn't get anything to see or to eat ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, NickD said: So, if it has not already been done, could I suggest that some simple measurements of the critical measurements from the amended Drawing 2 together with Hannes' excellent sketch above, would confirm exactly what the dimensions should be. Totally agree. How to proceed ? how can i help ? we should get the blueprints when Paul is back tuesday. Also, how can we be so sure the picture of the drawings we are about to receive represent the Fiat engineer's vision beyond the famous race ? we have not seen the pictures yet. Or am i missing something ( most likely ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Just to inform you that the Fiat 806 is in my stash, and will be, with the Delage 15S8, a priority for me 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) Very clean work, Olivier It deserves Louvres Museum (French Joke, sorry) Edited January 16, 2017 by CrazyCrank 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Superb work as always, Olivier! You have great patience my friend. Cheers, H 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Dear Olivier , a very convincing louvres opening ! Please don´t forget to change the opening for the steering crossbeam ! (photo 1 , look through the spokes of the front wheel !)It´s arched , not pointed ! Many greetings ! Hannes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Hannes said: Please don´t forget to change the opening for the steering crossbeam ! (photo 1 , look through the spokes of the front wheel !)It´s arched , not pointed ! Many greetings ! Hannes Dear Hannes, I am confused but, as usual, I did not see what you mean there (I know you ever mentioned that point before). May I ask a little drawing please? what is the "steering crossbeam"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 superb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 A lot of pic´s I know , but I thought it could be useful for your own constructions , that´s the reason why .The fairing and it´s surrounding now is an advanced state for me so I can go on with further constructions. That does not mean , it´s already 100 per cent correct ! I also did not yet start further detailling like representing the frame wire or drilling the holes for the windshield consrtuction. These kind of works will be done much later.And of course the rest of the bodywork needs to get altered too !(lowering , changing the rear axis openings and so on ) I hope I could encourage those who did not yet start with their own buildings ! Many greetings ! Hannes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 @Hannes Dear Hannes Truly Excellent work, precise, clean. Did you use the red as a mould for making the new ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Dear Olivier there´s no need to make a scetch . It´s simple. Look at the bonnet from the side ! The bottom line goes upwards at the front and surrounds the cam fairing .This "gap" has a wrong form ! It should look like the half of an U ! Look at photos 1 and 3 ! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Wow! That is looking really nice! Keep up the good work, Hannes. Cheers, H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Dear Sam ,this fairing was hand-made by using the old Protar fairing by shortening it at it´s left side and adding strips to it´s right side for elongation ,The rest was simple sculptural work.Same goes for the changing of the surrounding. It took some time because of the limited amount of informations. Viele liebe Grüsse ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Absolutely perfect shapes and a very neat work, Hannes...congrats 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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