RidgeRunner Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Hi all, I sent a direct message to Armando and he has not been able to help (this time) so I am putting my question out to the forum in case anyone knows. I am about to apply the final varnish cost to my Honduran Canadair Sabre and my dilemma is that apart from the serials, flag, emergency triangle and weapons block, I can see no stencilling on any images of he these machines on line. Does anyone out there know whether they had any? If they didn't it is strange as they must have needed some for servicing and maintenance? Any ideas? My Sabre can sit in the hangar until I'm a bit more certain about this! Thanks. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 The only pictures I have seen are as you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Hi! I am not certain, but I think at least part of Canadair Sabres for Honduras came from Yugoslavia. In Yugoslav air force service all stencils had been translated into Serbo-Croatian language at the first general overhaul, if not earlier. When transferred to Honduras (I have no idea, whether it was a sale or donation), Sabres had been already totally obsolete and I seriously doubt that anyone on Yugoslav side bothered with a translation of stencils into Spanish. Again, this are just my thoughts and I am not sure about it. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) To me there were no stencils Edited November 8, 2016 by RidgeRunner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 To me there were no stencils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Never noticed that Martin Baker ejection seat in a Honduran Sabre before, nice pic. Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I didn't notice that either!!!! I have to do some more sourcing!!!! Do any of you seat experts out there know which seat this is?? Martin Edited November 9, 2016 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain goat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Hi, I believe the Sabres delivered to Honduras were in storage for about half a decade before delivery in 1976, I don't know where, if I had to guess I'd say Pleso or Mostar as a lot of maintenance took place there. I read on a Serbian forum some time ago they were repainted before delivery but I can't find the source right now. No idea about stencils though. 7 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: I didn't notice that either!!!! I have to do some more sourcing!!!! Do any of you seat experts out there know which seat this is?? Martin That would be a Mk10 unless I'm very much mistaken. The SOKO J-22 Orao was fitted with that seat as well, an airplane which first flew and was tested in the same time frame as when the Sabres were delivered to Honduras. I presume spare parts for the North American seats were difficult to come by, as in the 1970s the US was reluctant to be seen to trade in weapon spare parts with the Tito regime for several reasons. At the same time, the SOKO Orao programme was in an advanced stage -so diverting Mk10s intended for the J-22s would seem the more sensible option. Wasn't the first time Sabres were retrofitted with Martin Bakers by the way - the Bundesluftwaffe did it in the 1960s with earlier model MBs (Mk4?) as the performance of the NA seats left a lot to be desired. Here's an ex-Luftwaffe example in Pakistani use with the seat: Here a Tracor Flight System Target Towing example: HTH Jay PS - the seat thing is purely guess work by the way. I have no proof- but shall look for some as I'm interested as well! Edited November 9, 2016 by Mountain goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 A very educated guess, I'd say! Thanks, Jay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Concur on the Mk10 seat in the Honduran Sabre 4. Sure looks like one to me Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 This helps too http://www.iconicaircraft.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3125&p=129421 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain goat Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mountain goat said: Hi, I believe the Sabres delivered to Honduras were in storage for about half a decade before delivery in 1976, I don't know where, if I had to guess I'd say Pleso or Mostar as a lot of maintenance took place there. I read on a Serbian forum some time ago they were repainted before delivery but I can't find the source right now. Some factual info on the Honduran birds can be had here - they were indeed repainted before delivery (probably obviously). Still looking for stuff on the Martin Bakers. (by the way - that fact makes me want to build one of these ) edit - on when the Sabres were painted (and thus chances of Spanish language stencilling) now I'm not so sure anymore, perhaps painting was done in situ or at NAS Key West: see this older BM thread. Jay Edited November 9, 2016 by Mountain goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 According to Duncan Curtis's book the MB seats were fitted in Honduras after an incident in 1980 where the NA seat malfunctioned and the pilot had to bale out old school. The had Sabre 4s from Yugoslavia and also a couple of F-86F's possibly from Venezuela. The Sabre 4's were delivered in crates to Florida where they were assembled and flown down to Honduras. The text mentions them being painted light blue for this. Honduras also later got 4 K models as a gift from Venezuela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 What a great forum this is. thanks all. martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Hi Martin Bowman's book F-86 Sabre from Combat Legend series gives the number of Yugoslav Sabres for Honduras as eight. The purpose of the purchase was to bridge the gap while waiting for Israeli Super Mysteres to arrive. In effect both types were delivered practically at the same time and four of Yugoslav Sabres were donated to Venezuela. One of Yugoslav sources gives the number of Sabres as six and mentions refurbishment in USA prior to delivery. Well, Juilen mentioned that Honduras later received four F-86K, so, in light of earlier donation of four Sabres 4 to Venezuela, that may well be just the fellow Latin America nation returning the favour. Interesting debate, but we strayed a bit from original topic. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Thanks Jure. The Hondurans only ever opefated 2 of the Ks. Martin Edited November 10, 2016 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 Julien, "According to Duncan Curtis's book the MB" which book? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 4 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: Julien, "According to Duncan Curtis's book the MB" which book? M this one probably 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Hi Martin This is what I have Los Sabres Hondureños llegaron de diferentes partes, en 1976 ocho ex- Fuerza Aérea Yugoslavas Sabre Mk-4 (F-86E(M) fueron entregados a la FAH provenientes de Florida. Al año siguiente cuatro ex USAF F-86F (algunas fuentes hacen mención de cinco aviones) fueron entregados. Cabe mencionar que los Sabres Hondureños eran Canadair CL-13. FAH: 3001- 3010 En 1969 cuatro F-86K ex FAV fueron entregados pero al parecer solo dos estaban en condiciones de vuelo. En realidad Venezuela vendió 6 Fiat F-86K a Honduras a principios de los ’70, pero llegaron con varios componentes faltantes, incluyendo el radar y los sistemas de armamento. 2 de estos fueron puestos en condición de vuelo, convirtiendo en los primeros cazas jet en entrar en la FAH. De acuerdo con el ex Presidente Venezolano, Carlos Andrés Pérez, el Gobierno de los U.S. (alias la CIA) retiros los equipos antes mencionados en Trinidad y Tobago durante la parada que hiciera el barco que los transportaba. Actualmente 2 están como monumentos en las entradas de las Base Aéreas de San Pedro Sula y La Ceiba. Un ejemplar adicional estará en exhibición en el MUSEO DEL AIRE a ser inaugurado pronto en Tegucigalpa. FAH: 1100 -1103 The Honduran Sabers arrived from different parts, in 1976 eight former Yugoslav Sabre Mk-4 Air Force (F-86E (M) were delivered to the FAH from Florida. The following year four ex-USAF F-86F (some sources mention Of five aircraft) were delivered.It is worth mentioning that the Honduran Sabers were Canadair CL-13. FAH: 3001-3010 hg In 1969 four F-86K ex FAVs were delivered but apparently only two were in flight conditions. Venezuela actually sold 6 Fiat F-86Ks to Honduras in the early 1970s, but came with several missing components, including radar and weapon systems. 2 of these were put into flight condition, making them the first jet fighters to enter the FAH. According to former Venezuelan President Carlos Andrés Pérez, the U.S. Government (alias CIA) withdraws the aforementioned teams in Trinidad and Tobago during the stop made by the ship carrying them. Currently 2 are like monuments in the entrances of the Air Base of San Pedro Sula and La Ceiba. An additional copy will be on display at the AIR MUSEUM to be opened soon in Tegucigalpa. FAH: 1100-1103 You can also look here https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2374294 Before I forget something I assume that ejection seat is a Martin Baker Mk4/6 because the same seat is used with the Super Mysteres, remember Sabres coming from Yugoslavia so its easier to check those aircrafts Best day Armando Edited November 11, 2016 by RAGATIGER need to add more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 On 11/8/2016 at 4:30 PM, RidgeRunner said: To me there were no stencils Coroneles FAH Jose Israel Navarro y José San Martín junto al Mayor John Lamb y Capitán Blake Thomas de la USAF. (Colección, propiedad y cortesia del Coronel F.A.H ( R) José Alfredo San Martín). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Again, Armando, you are a star. I really appreciate your help, as I do from everyone else. Regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 22 hours ago, RAGATIGER said: Hi Martin This is what I have Los Sabres Hondureños llegaron de diferentes partes, en 1976 ocho ex- Fuerza Aérea Yugoslavas Sabre Mk-4 (F-86E(M) fueron entregados a la FAH provenientes de Florida. Al año siguiente cuatro ex USAF F-86F (algunas fuentes hacen mención de cinco aviones) fueron entregados. Cabe mencionar que los Sabres Hondureños eran Canadair CL-13. FAH: 3001- 3010 En 1969 cuatro F-86K ex FAV fueron entregados pero al parecer solo dos estaban en condiciones de vuelo. En realidad Venezuela vendió 6 Fiat F-86K a Honduras a principios de los ’70, pero llegaron con varios componentes faltantes, incluyendo el radar y los sistemas de armamento. 2 de estos fueron puestos en condición de vuelo, convirtiendo en los primeros cazas jet en entrar en la FAH. De acuerdo con el ex Presidente Venezolano, Carlos Andrés Pérez, el Gobierno de los U.S. (alias la CIA) retiros los equipos antes mencionados en Trinidad y Tobago durante la parada que hiciera el barco que los transportaba. Actualmente 2 están como monumentos en las entradas de las Base Aéreas de San Pedro Sula y La Ceiba. Un ejemplar adicional estará en exhibición en el MUSEO DEL AIRE a ser inaugurado pronto en Tegucigalpa. FAH: 1100 -1103 The Honduran Sabers arrived from different parts, in 1976 eight former Yugoslav Sabre Mk-4 Air Force (F-86E (M) were delivered to the FAH from Florida. The following year four ex-USAF F-86F (some sources mention Of five aircraft) were delivered.It is worth mentioning that the Honduran Sabers were Canadair CL-13. FAH: 3001-3010 hg In 1969 four F-86K ex FAVs were delivered but apparently only two were in flight conditions. Venezuela actually sold 6 Fiat F-86Ks to Honduras in the early 1970s, but came with several missing components, including radar and weapon systems. 2 of these were put into flight condition, making them the first jet fighters to enter the FAH. According to former Venezuelan President Carlos Andrés Pérez, the U.S. Government (alias CIA) withdraws the aforementioned teams in Trinidad and Tobago during the stop made by the ship carrying them. Currently 2 are like monuments in the entrances of the Air Base of San Pedro Sula and La Ceiba. An additional copy will be on display at the AIR MUSEUM to be opened soon in Tegucigalpa. FAH: 1100-1103 You can also look here https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2374294 Before I forget something I assume that ejection seat is a Martin Baker Mk4/6 because the same seat is used with the Super Mysteres, remember Sabres coming from Yugoslavia so its easier to check those aircrafts Best day Armando Hi there Well I was thinking that if we follow the previous paragraph they received 8 Sabres But you still can count 5 at San Pedro Sula AFB and one at Chile Museum And not remember the source but 2 were lost and both pilots save their life because the ejection seat that way count still 8 Best day Armando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now