Dave Fleming Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 An updated version of either would be interesting, bearing in mind how much extra information may have come to light since 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) Cheers Troy,.....I have Confounding The Reich and Confound and Destroy but not the Aircraft of 100 Group. Cheers for the link too. While I`m laid up and unable to get to Telford I`m trying to find out the true identity of the Fortress with the nose art and if it was definitely a 214 Sqn aircraft. So no modelling done today. Just heard about the forthcoming Airfix Phantom,......get in there,....brilliant news! Cheers Tony Edit,......did an Amazon search and found this,.....the dates seem a bit strange and doesn`t inspire confidence! And this one,.....but is it just a reprint of Confounding the Reich under a different name? The 8 Group Mossie on the cover is off putting too. Edited November 12, 2016 by tonyot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) The second book is the one I have (somewhere), purchased in a remainder bookshop in Lowestoft for a fiver. I can't say how accurate it is but it does have interesting photos, all of which are probably on the web, and, if I remember correctly, works through each squadron history with veteran's stories. It might be worth having a delve into ABEbooks, there are numerous copies of both 'Confounding the Reich' and the 100 Group book. Edited November 12, 2016 by Beard To correct grammar and spelling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Looking at this fine build, Tony, I definitely feel some of my Birthday money drifting towards an Airfix B-17. I believe I still have the decals for a 100 Group Fortress somewhere. If only I could find the Paragon conversion set. I knew I should have bought it when I had the chance (yes, that old regret/complaint!). Regards, Jason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Thanks Beard,.....ordered the bottom book for £3 odd and another one that I hadn`t heard of before,..so hopefully there will be something new! Jason why don`t you wait for Airfix to do a 100 Gp boxing,......I wouldn`t be surprised if it is announced for the new years catalogue with the addition of an extra sprue. Cheers Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkeEins Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, tonyot said: Jason why don`t you wait for Airfix to do a 100 Gp boxing,..... think we might have to - the DK Decals sheet is out of stock everywhere as well currently 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Nice to see this build, Tony. There are many ways to avoid the odd USAAF B-17s and try for something more exotic. 100 Group RAF and Coastal Command machines are very interesting indeed. I've about everything I need in term of documention regarding the lattest, but nearl nothing about 100 Group, so do not hesitate to share your views about your lattest acquisitions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 11 hours ago, tonyot said: Thanks Beard,.....ordered the bottom book for £3 odd and another one that I hadn`t heard of before,..so hopefully there will be something new! Cheers Tony. I hope it does have something new, otherwise I'll feel responsible for you wasting your money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Beema Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I know nothing about 100 Group nor the use of the Fortress in RAF service (if you can't land it on a carrier...) but I do enjoy looking at the research and background you are putting into this, it the kind of thing that I try and do, more power to you.. If you don't mind I'll sit quietly at the back and listen in to the conversation.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cox Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Nice build Tony, According to Roger A. Freeman the H2S conversion you are depicting, was also applied to the following USAAF B-17F's from 813BS of the 482nd BG. 42-5793 PC-M - Crashed 10 November 1943 42-5909 PC-N - MIA 4 February 1944 42-3398 PC-Q 42-5819 PC-R 42-3357 PC-S - MIA 8 February 1944 42-5970 PC-T 42-30731 PC-U 42-30729 PC-V Cheers, Daniel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 On 11/11/2016 at 11:31 PM, tonyot said: Here is a pic of KJ118 from the IWM I have a feeling that the subject of the decals that I am wanting to build, with the nose art in place, may actually be a 193 Sqn aircraft,.....I`ll do more digging in the morning. Okay, BU-E defo not KJ118 (assuming the pencilled caption on the back of the original photo to be correct - which, as I have found with the FAA photo collection, is not always the case): we inch forward. Look forward to your thought on 193 Sq: not sure myself: the A-B serial book has a couple of 214 Sq aircraft (KJ104 and KJ109, ex BU-V) being passed on to 1699 Flight, but (excepting a couple sent to Coastal Command and an HCU) that's the only unit mentioned for Fortress IIIs apart from 214 223 and RWE. The Aircraft of 100 Group was and is a tremendous achievement and is still well worth the utterly pornographic sums it sells for second-hand. The state of our knowledge has moved on since 1984 (eg the list of B-17s known to have served with 100 Gp on p.66 gets quite a bit longer with the info from the Freeman/Osbourne book) but it still is an absolute mine of information, with internal sketches, sketches of aerials, photos of the internal equipment fits, artwork of colour schemes, all on the basis of research I've always found to be meticulous. I'd say anyone modelling 100 Group without access to it is about 75% blind. Martin Bowman has written some excellent books but I wouldn't put 100 Group Bomber Support at the top of the pile, at least for the modeller. It's a Pen and Sword title, basically a tour round ex-100 Group airfields describing what was based there and what remains now. Mine was remaindered for about £3.95 and it was just about worth it for a few close-ups of nose art (including BU-E's "Take it easy") and some photos for serial/code tie-ins. Worth it if you can get it cheaply but don't get your hopes up too high. Haven't encountered the other title before but think rpt think the author's name has come up in connection with shoddy books quickly compiled from surface quarrying of the internet. Happy to let someone else shell out their hard-earned before I would touch with a bargepole. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 16 hours ago, tonyot said: I wouldn`t be surprised if it is announced for the new years catalogue with the addition of an extra sprue. Yes, I foresee a "add a small extra sprue and bump up a series" scenario, like the Whitley VII. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonM Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 8 hours ago, Daniel Cox said: Nice build Tony, According to Roger A. Freeman the H2S conversion you are depicting, was also applied to the following USAAF B-17F's from 813BS of the 482nd BG. 42-5793 PC-M - Crashed 10 November 1943 42-5909 PC-N - MIA 4 February 1944 42-3398 PC-Q 42-5819 PC-R 42-3357 PC-S - MIA 8 February 1944 42-5970 PC-T 42-30731 PC-U 42-30729 PC-V Cheers, Daniel. Loks like I'll be buying some for my Alconbury collection then! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 (edited) Cheers for the additional info lads and the info about the USAAF H2S fitted B-17`s was fantastic Daniel....thanks mate. I quite fancy doing a night flying USAAF Fortress and was thinking of the Leaflet dropping unit,.....but you have me thinking now! What colour were the codes,....and are there any photos,....do you know? This is the other book that I have ordered; I`ve not had time to do any modelling or research today as the trip to the local war memorial this morning took it out of me too much, I really would like to get to the bottom of the serial and codes for `Take it Easy' ,......I can see an E on the rear fuselage at least and I hope that it is KJ117/BU-E after all. Cheers Tony Edited November 14, 2016 by tonyot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempestwulf Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Perfecting timing as I got mine last week. I'm a bit miffed Airfix decided to print the yellow tail serial with OD around it as it'd be hard to match any weathering done. S may buy after market decals though I was looking forward to Skyway Chariot. She's a beautifully crafted piece of plastic and worth it compared to the other offerings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 (edited) You are correct,...it is a beautiful model and by far the best B-17 in this cale on the market. I`ve been doing a bit more digging and according to this book; The pilot Johnny Wynne described that after he flew HB799 back alone after his crew baled out over Germany (5 of whom were murdered), it was pretty bent and flew once more to Oulton, but was repaired and rejoined the unit later, also giving a very good description of the last sortie he flew in her. As a replacement he took over a new Lockheed built B-17G, KJ117 and while on 214 Sqn it was coded BU-E. Upon the nose he painted a tableau of St.Peter over several days using dopes available from the flight stores, It represented a war operation `Dicing With Death' Historically it is important as it represents St. Peter who is the keeper of the gates of heaven with his golden chopper with which he harvested the good boys for heaven. This was current Bomber Command theology hence the term `get the chop'. There was of course a third player in this game of crap (ie the American dice game!) `E-Easy' herself, hence the title `Take it Easy'. Due to this info,.....I will be carrying on with this model as KJ117, BU-E.,....PHEW! Cheers Tony Edited November 14, 2016 by tonyot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickthebrief Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Great research there as usual, Tony. It makes your threads a constant pleasure to read, even if the subject is not a specific favourite or the model not in a particular scale. This Fortress is no exception... I also thoroughly enjoy seeing your builds progress. Trying to choose my words carefully, I love the way the "in progress" shots sometimes show quite a scruffy look, with bits of overspray, evidence of sanding etc, and gradually the model is transformed into a beautifully finished end result. How you manage some of your paint finishes without (I think I'm right in saying?) an airbrush is quite beyond me. Like many on this site, I'm eagerly awaiting the next build instalment. Keep up the good work! Nick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, tonyot said: You are correct,...it is a beautiful model and by far the best B-17 in this cale on the market. I`ve been doing a bit more digging and according to this book; The pilot Johnny Wynne described that after he flew HB799 back alone after his crew baled out over Germany (5 of whom were murdered), it was pretty bent and flew once more to Oulton, but was repaired and rejoined the unit later, also giving a very good description of the last sortie he flew in her. As a replacement he took over a new Lockheed built B-17G, KJ117 and while on 214 Sqn it was coded BU-E. Upon the nose he painted a tableau of St.Peter over several days using dopes available from the flight stores, It represented a war operation `Dicing With Death' Historically it is important as it represents St. Peter who is the keeper of the gates of heaven with his golden chopper with which he harvested the good boys for heaven. This was current Bomber Command theology hence the term `get the chop'. There was of course a third player in this game of crap (ie the American dice game!) `E-Easy' herself, hence the title `Take it Easy'. Well done: eye-witness testimony (if still not a photo). QED Just been looking at RAF and RCAF Nose Art in World War II (Clarence Simonsen, Hikoki, 2001). Pages 190-1 and 193 have quite a bit on the Fortresses of 100 Group, including an impressive table of code/serial tie-ins (including KJ117 as BU-E, natch). He says that KJ117 BU-E was passed on to RWE in August 1945 as U3-E, still with the nose art. Wynne continued flying it with RWE until 1946. RWE's establishment was 8 Fortress IIIs of which 4 (A, C, E and H) were ex-214 Sq. Whereas the other 3 were scrapped in England, KJ117 was apparently returned to the Americans. Another ex-214 Sq Fortress III retained her nose art while with RWE but Simonsen does not say which. Oh, and 1999 Flight was based at Oulton with a crew-training function. One of its aircraft, SR383 (a B-17F-130 BO according to Freeman) reportedly had its codes 4Z-Z applied in yellow. The level of detail makes me wonder whether this too all came from Wynne himself. Anyway, well done, proceed with confidence and sorry for being the source of a few bum steers along the way. I shall now sit back and enjoy your excellent modelling. Edited November 14, 2016 by Seahawk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 All I can say now that I've got my copy of this kit is WOW! If Airfix keep churning them out at this level, their future is assured. This is going to be my first big project of next year, although I'll probably start tinkering with it over the next couple of months so I can hit the ground running in the new year. On another note, it looks like the specific bits for a 100 Grp Fortress are on Sprue I which isn't included in the current boxing. The ones included run from A to K with I being the only omission (presuming it isn't to avoid confusion with the number 1 of course). Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) 14 hours ago, Seahawk said: Well done: eye-witness testimony (if still not a photo). QED Just been looking at RAF and RCAF Nose Art in World War II (Clarence Simonsen, Hikoki, 2001). Pages 190-1 and 193 have quite a bit on the Fortresses of 100 Group, including an impressive table of code/serial tie-ins (including KJ117 as BU-E, natch). He says that KJ117 BU-E was passed on to RWE in August 1945 as U3-E, still with the nose art. Wynne continued flying it with RWE until 1946. RWE's establishment was 8 Fortress IIIs of which 4 (A, C, E and H) were ex-214 Sq. Whereas the other 3 were scrapped in England, KJ117 was apparently returned to the Americans. Another ex-214 Sq Fortress III retained her nose art while with RWE but Simonsen does not say which. Oh, and 1999 Flight was based at Oulton with a crew-training function. One of its aircraft, SR383 (a B-17F-130 BO according to Freeman) reportedly had its codes 4Z-Z applied in yellow. The level of detail makes me wonder whether this too all came from Wynne himself. Anyway, well done, proceed with confidence and sorry for being the source of a few bum steers along the way. I shall now sit back and enjoy your excellent modelling. It often takes a few bum steers to arrive at the truth and I`m just as guilty!! As luck would have it I have just been reading the same in my copy of the Hikoki book this very evening,.....so great minds think alike Seahawk and cheers for posting it as I could easily have overlooked it among the pile of books accumulating next to my settee! As I also want to build a 214 Sqn Mk.II wearing BU codes,...possibly this one; , ,...then I might just build this Mk.III, KJ117 as U3-E of the RWE with white serial on the rear fuselage and under the wings for something slightly different,as I`ve seen this on other post war 100 Group Fortresses and there is a photos of KJ118 6G-H wearing white fuselage and underwing serial on pg 142 of `RAF Bomber Command' by Chris Ashworth. . I have a photo somewhere which shows the U3 codes applied to a Fort with the previous codes still plainly visible overpainted underneath, so when I find it I`ll portray it like this. Cheers, Tony Edited November 15, 2016 by tonyot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-21 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) This is a good site go to photos section http://www.482nd.org/history "Confounding The Reich" by Martin Bowman is a good overall history of 100 Group with many photos. Edited November 15, 2016 by T-21 update 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 11 minutes ago, T-21 said: This is a good site go to photos section http://www.482nd.org/history Great pics,........ I had known about the radar mounted in the ball turret position used by this unit but until you mentioned it the RAF style nose mounting on a USAAF B-17 was totally new to me and the photos etc are brilliant,.....so thanks ever so much for sharing them and for adding to my knowledge of the type. All the best and cheers again, Tony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) I don`t know if anybody is interested but I built a pair of Academy B-17F kits to replicate the same Canadian mail plane from 168 (HT) Sqn. RCAF at the early and latter parts of its service on the trans Atlantic forces mail service from Canada to the UK and the Middle East...... Here is the early one; And here is the same aircraft at the end of its career; These models both have the forward gun mount and framework scratch built into the nose come which my 214 Sqn Mk.II would need too. Sorry if you`ve seen them before or I`ve bored you,.....I just thought that some might like to see them, Cheers Tony Edited November 15, 2016 by tonyot 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 1 hour ago, tonyot said: These models both have the forward gun mount and framework scratch built into the nose come which my 214 Sqn Mk.II would need too. Sorry if you`ve seen them before or I`ve bored you,.....I just thought that some might like to see them, Cheers Tony Me again: my turn to bore you. The SRxxx Fortress IIs were as late as B-17Fs could be without being B-17Gs (SR388 BU-H, 4Z-Z was the very last B-17F Boeing built) so it would need true cheek gun positions rather than the machine-gun-through-perspex-side-window type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 11 hours ago, Seahawk said: Me again: my turn to bore you. The SRxxx Fortress IIs were as late as B-17Fs could be without being B-17Gs (SR388 BU-H, 4Z-Z was the very last B-17F Boeing built) so it would need true cheek gun positions rather than the machine-gun-through-perspex-side-window type. Yeah cheers for the reminder,....it shows up clearly in the photo and colour side view that I posted earlier. Thats one of the reason why I like this particular aircraft. Ta, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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