davepb Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I see that Radio Lincolnshire is saying the E£ Sentries have been grounded because of an electrical fault. Anyone know anything? Link to BBC page http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37897173 Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 There's a thread on PPRuNe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamwalker Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 what do you expect from secondhand American rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, grahamwalker said: what do you expect from secondhand American rubbish Weirdly enough, none of the other operators have this problem with our secondhand garbage E-3s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamwalker Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 No the real crappy stuff is reserved for the British Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I think you're confusing the RAF's E-3 Sentries - which were brand new aircraft delivered off the production line back in 1990 - with the three secondhand RC-135s that it recently acquired. Making Procopius' point a very good one, and if you read the PPRuNe thread you'll see some discussion of why this might be so. You'ld need to read back through the "Air Cadets grounded" thread for the full picture but some knowledgeable people from the RAF community are suggesting that there's a systemic failure of the entire military airworthiness regime with its roots over 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Procopius said: Weirdly enough, none of the other operators have this problem with our secondhand garbage E-3s. 1 hour ago, grahamwalker said: what do you expect from secondhand American rubbish As AWFK states above, you are both very much mistaken. The RAF Sentry fleet was brand new on delivery and were the last (brand new) 707 airframes off the Boeing production line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Actually, aren't USAF E-3's rather elderly by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 It sounds horribly as though this may be due to our dearly beloved MoD deciding to go it alone and ignore the advice of the original manufacturer and the route taken by most other users. Rather than upgrade to avoid the wiring fire issue, their view was that the evidence suggested that any fires on RAF E3s were well within the capability of the crews to deal with on the spot and hence no significant safety issue, no need for upgrade. Umm - not sure that argument would have got very far in my discipline and this grounding rather suggests the plan my have been 'over-optimistic'. (being generous) What happened to the seventh E3D, does anyone know? John B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 ZH105 has become a Christmas tree for the remainder: images on t'interweb show it minus tail fin, tail planes, rotodome, engines, some flight deck windows, outer wing panels and various other bits. It's flying days are definitely over. I wonder if anyone at the Misery of Disarmament read the accident report on the SwissAir MD-11 accident; somehow I suspect not ("We don't have any of these do we? No? Doesn't apply to us then. File 13 please, Nigel. Now where are my lapsang suchon (sp) and dark chocolate Digetstives?") Once upon a time it was tradition in the RAF that those who had worked on an aircraft could be taken on the air test afterwards, assuming that there was sufficient room for them.. Maybe now those who make the decisions about overhauls, upgrades and airworthiness should be encouraged to go flying in he products of their decisions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Thanks Stever19. Was it condemned as a Christmas tree after any problems, or just that we did not have enough spares and had to sacrifice one aircraft? I agree about learning from others - I don't think MoD do that. Not sure they learn from themselves! John B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 ZH105 can be seen parked at Waddington from the A15 just South of Lincoln. It has two other Sentry's for company. If the problem is caused by Kapton wiring it isn't news. We had problems with it on relatively new Tucano's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: ZH105 can be seen parked at Waddington from the A15 just South of Lincoln. It has two other Sentry's for company. If the problem is caused by Kapton wiring it isn't news. We had problems with it on relatively new Tucano's. There was also a problem with this type of wiring on the brand new Harrier GR5/7s in the late 80s/early 90s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Thanks chaps. i suspect that '105 was withdrawn as a cost-saving (?!) measure rather than the Misery of Disarmament having to pay for a @&%^*¥ expensive overhaul, as happened with a number of the VC-10 fleet later in their lives. I wasn't aware that '105 now has some company. Does this mean that we're probably going to wind up buying the horrible Boeing Wedgetail after a multi-year capability gap as the E-3s are gradually converted into saucepans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 http://www.janes.com/article/65321/uk-grounds-sentry-fleet-due-to-electrical-faults Like the man says, "due to budgetary constraints". "Punching above our weight", as our politicians are fond of declaiming..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinbear Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 15 hours ago, stever219 said: Thanks chaps. i suspect that '105 was withdrawn as a cost-saving (?!) measure rather than the Misery of Disarmament having to pay for a @&%^*¥ expensive overhaul, as happened with a number of the VC-10 fleet later in their lives. I wasn't aware that '105 now has some company. Does this mean that we're probably going to wind up buying the horrible Boeing Wedgetail after a multi-year capability gap as the E-3s are gradually converted into saucepans? My memory bank has a hazy recollection that a Sentry suffered some damage when a ground support vehicle drove into it some years ago. I'm wondering that was ZH105? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Latinbear said: My memory bank has a hazy recollection that a Sentry suffered some damage when a ground support vehicle drove into it some years ago. I'm wondering that was ZH105? From memory it isn't, but I may be wrong. I think that one got repaired (t'interweb suggests that was '106 in Jan '07) about the same time '105 was withdrawn. Edited November 9, 2016 by Vickers McFunbus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 You can only fly what you have the resources for be it manpower or equipment. Money is tight across all the platforms 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 10 hours ago, Latinbear said: My memory bank has a hazy recollection that a Sentry suffered some damage when a ground support vehicle drove into it some years ago. I'm wondering that was ZH105? Not quite, it was actually a piece of "ground support equipment" which had been caught by the wind during a gale and struck ZH106 (perhaps appropriately named Grumpy) after bouncing off another aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Love it when people get their wires crossed then vanish off the thread.... eh Graham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent K Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 On 07/11/2016 at 6:42 PM, grahamwalker said: what do you expect from secondhand American rubbish What utter nonsense, they were procured new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Got to say from my days popping up to wadders and doing the RAF thing of doing detachments from hotels....terible lol but the Sentry were new but that was early 90s so they are over 25 years old .....they require TLC . As for kapton wiring oòh that will be a big expensive long job to change.....nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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