Wellington in strange markings.

[Etiennedup]

I came across this in Getty images today.

Could it have been some kind of  war games exercise?

 

 

[Silver Fox]

According to Bombing Colours by Michael Bowyer L4345  UX-L was seen in exercise markings May June 1939 so I guess that L4341 was marked for the same exercise.

[DaveCromie]

Hi all

 

Great picture and it raises some questions for me, so hopefully someone here can answer them for me. Sadly I don't have a copy of Bombing Colours which would probably answer my second question so I pose my questions to the assembly of highly knowledgeable individuals that make up this forum!

 

1. What is on the forward/rear guns? It looks like they've been wrapped in something, but what and why??

2. Any idea what the colours of the markings are? The fuselage roundel looks like a Type B with a red cross over it but the upper wing looks like it just has a cross on it?? The curvature of the camouflage demarcation line on the fuselage at the roundel makes it look like the roundel should have another outer ring or am I over thinking (with a brain like mine this most unlikely!)?

3. Has the wartime censor deleted the individual code letter? There is plenty of room for it and there is what looks like a very pale/faded/deliberately obscured letter A ahead of the roundel or am I imagining it?

 

Cheers all

 

DC the confused

[Graham Boak]

There's a lot of glare on that photo, and I think that the individual letter has just been lost.   I think we are seeing B roundels in four places with the exercise cross.  Sometimes you will see B roundels with a yellow ring in post-Munich period photos, but they aren't common.   Something tells that this exercise scheme (not the same photo) also appears in the Wellington Profile, so if anyone has that handy....

[vildebeest]

There is a profile of L4345 in Goulding & Moyes, RAF Bomber Command vol 1. That shows white crosses on Type B roundels with an explanation that the lighter outer ring is overpainting of the yellow ring of the original A1 roundel.

 

Paul

Edited November 6, 2016 by vildebeest
wrong serial number

[Silver Fox]

Further reading of Bowyer says that the exercise markings were white crosses painted across the roundels.

[Jure Miljevic]

Hi, DC

Both The Wellington I & II (Profile) and Vickers Wellington (Warpaint) provide colour profile of L4345 UX-L with the whole fuselage B type roundel overpainted with black and with a superimposed white cross. It seems like wing roundels of L4341 on the photo had been overpainted the same way. Also, the fuselage roundel looks like black with a white center and with a white cross on the top of it. Vickers Wellington (4+) does give L4341 codes as a UX-A. Original fuselage roundel looks like A1, modified by overpainting outer yellow ring with camouflage colour, and white ring overpainted with red and blue, effectively making type B out of it, as has been suggested in Alan W. Hall's book Vickers Wellington, published by Warpaint. These markings identifies the bomber as a part of Westland, that is friendly, force during exercises. Unfortunately, I have no idea about the guns wrappings. Cheers

Jure

[Jure Miljevic]

Well, to mud waters a bit more, 4+ publishes black and white profiles of L4341, but the center of the fuselage roundels are given as red. The rest of the fuselage markings is the same as in other publications, that is black outer ring with a white cross on the top of the roundel. L4341 is again listed as taking part in Westland air force, and an occasion is given as a Annual air defence exercises in August 1939. Cheers

Jure

[Aeronut]

Could the 'guns' be camera guns?

[modelldoc]

Warpaint drawing is for L4045 LU-X, 

"Westland" force air defence exercises, August 1939.

Says B Type roundels on upperwing, A1 on fuselage (overpainted) and Type A underwing markings.

 

modelldoc

[Graham Boak]

Camera guns look like cameras, not like guns.  I suspect the barrels are just covered, for some reason.

[Aeronut]

Gun cameras look like cameras but camera guns looked like guns because they replaced the manually swung gun in training. They were aimed and when 'fired' took photos of what was being aimed at.  This Wellington is photographed at a time when they would still have been in service.

[dogsbody]

From Warpaint No.10 by Alan W. Hall.

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

[Michael51]

8 hours ago, Etiennedup said:

I came across this in Getty images today.

Could it have been some kind of  war games exercise?

 

 

 

This photograph - or one very similar to it - also appears in "Wellington in Action"[Aircraft number 76, Squadron/Signal publications] at p.9, stating "L4341 has white crosses painted over the roundels during Air Defense exercises in August of 1939, denoting that it is a 'Westland' aircraft. This machine carries the B camouflage pattern which extends down the fuselage and carries No 214 Squadron code letters which soon changed to BU.'

 

Is it possible that for the nose armament at least, that this image has been re-touched?

 

Michael

 

Michael

Edited November 7, 2016 by Michael Enright

[Graham Boak]

Given the appearance of this aircraft, particularly the Dark Earth, this photograph was taken on a film/using a filter that brought out the blue and reduced the red.  Despite the artwork, there is clearly a disc in the centre of the fuselage roundel, at least.  This suggests to me  that the white cross was simply applied directly onto red/blue roundels, whether precisely the official proportions of the B roundels or not.  As stated in the reference imediately above.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Graham Boak

[Aeronut]

Re  Camera guns, I found this site with a photo of the device I was thinking of.

http://www.oobject.com/category/14-cameras-that-look-just-like-guns/

Number 4, the Hythe Camera gun is modelled on the Vickers K which is the type of weapon used on the Wellington.

Carrying such devices during an exercise would be logical. 

[Ivor Ramsden]

Just to set the record straight, the Hythe camera gun was introduced around 1915 and is based on the Lewis gun, not the later Vickers "K".

[Finn]

Here are a couple of pics of pre-war Wellingtons showing the nose "gun":

 

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210910

 

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210914

 

click on the pics and you can zoom in.

 

Jari

[Mike Starmer]

This Wellington is, as Graham says, been photographed using a coloured filter, yellow I think.  White crosses were applied over the normal coloured roundels, nothing was overpainted , just the crosses added in washable paint.  The reason no individual ID letter is apparent is because it hidden in the reflection and the letters are in Sky Grey as specified at the time, NOT Medium Sea Grey which is generally assumed.  The use of that colour did not begin until 1940 and then only for day fighters.  I know that this is heresy but what is very obvious on 1938-39 photographs are very light, off-white looking codes and in 194-41 the same with serials too.  Units sometimes had to mix a grey which is why there are tonal variations  in the 1938-39 pictures.  Compare the tone of codes with the white and yellow on photographs to see the effect.

[DaveCromie]

Wow

 

Normally I quote the people who provide answers or input when I ask a question but in this case I will simply say thank you to everyone who has posted with information about this aircraft. I am in awe at the sheer amount of knowledge found on this forum and at the willingness to share possessed by the members.

 

Thank you all so much for your help

 

DC

[modelldoc]

Here are two links for the background of these operation:

 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/48324153

 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2509080

 

And here is the picture and a short information:

 

http://biblioteka.mycity-military.com/biblioteka/cyber fulkrum/E N G L E S K I/AC 4 Publication i drugo/AC_-_4__Publication_-_Wellington.pdf

 

modelldoc

Edited November 9, 2016 by modelldoc