Recce photo Blenheim MkIV 1940

[AndrewCJ50]

Dear Fellow Modellers

 

Some of you may know of a book entitled 6 weeks of a Blenheim summer recalling Alastair Panton's memoirs flying recce operations during the battle of France in 1940.  I assume these reconnaissance Blenheims would have had a camera set up for their role?  Was it set up in the bomb bay like with the Mosquito?  Does anyone have any ideas or photos on how they might have been configured?

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

[tonyot]

There was a camera window in the rear compartment, behind the bomb bay;

You can just seen the camera hatch on this Fleet Air Arm Blenheim Mk.IV;

Also,.....the Navigator/Observer could open up the nose escape hatch and use a hand held camer too;

 

All the best

                 Tony

Edited November 3, 2016 by tonyot

[Tony C]

As I'm not a Blenheim expert there appears to be two bugles at the front of the bomb bay doors and if so, are these standard or for something else?

[Graham Boak]

I believe they are standard.  However, I can't identify whatever the items are below the rear fuselage aft of the camera window I a tube aft and an aerial(?) forward, nor the strake on the lower rear fuselage.  Lovely picture.

[Tony C]

Boarding ladder and flare shute?

[DaveCromie]

19 hours ago, tonyot said:

There was a camera window in the rear compartment, behind the bomb bay;

 

 

 

Hi Tony

 

Given the perils in trying to work out colour schemes on B&W photos do you have any idea what colour scheme this is in? I would expect it to be in Temperate Sea Scheme (Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey/Sky) but the contrast between the upper colours looks awfully high. I also note that there is no 'Royal Navy' text above the serial number which I would expected on an an FAA aircraft. Would the codes (T8J by my interpretation (or is it TBJ)) be in white, Medium Sea Grey or some other colour?

 

I love building aircraft that are slightly dfferent than normal and this one definitely fits my criteria but I would like to do it justice by getting it right! Thanks for sharing this photograph too, a new one for me 

 

All the best

 

DC

[tonyot]

4 minutes ago, DaveCromie said:

 

Hi Tony

 

Given the perils in trying to work out colour schemes on B&W photos do you have any idea what colour scheme this is in? I would expect it to be in Temperate Sea Scheme (Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey/Sky) but the contrast between the upper colours looks awfully high. I also note that there is no 'Royal Navy' text above the serial number which I would expected on an an FAA aircraft. Would the codes (T8J by my interpretation (or is it TBJ)) be in white, Medium Sea Grey or some other colour?

 

I love building aircraft that are slightly dfferent than normal and this one definitely fits my criteria but I would like to do it justice by getting it right! Thanks for sharing this photograph too, a new one for me 

 

All the best

 

DC

Hiya DC,

            I`d go for Dark Eath and Dark Green with Sky undersides although yellow undersides are possible too........ but that is just a guess? Could be Ocean Grey/Dark Green but it doesn`t look like the TSS to me.

 

Cheers

           Tony

 

Tony C- The bulges under the bomb bay are standard for Blenheim`s mate.

[The wooksta V2.0]

Codes are likely to be yellow, given that it's a second line type.  The ring of the roundel is the same shade.

[DaveCromie]

TonyOT

 

Completely agree about it not looking like TSS! Given the period, the aircraft's role and its user I reckon I would go with DG/DE over Sky rather than OG/DG but like you say it is little more than a guess

 

Wooksta

 

Thanks for that, I should have remembered yellow codes for a second line aircraft!

 

Blenheim Mk IV to be added to my letter to Santa along with the new B17G!

 

Cheers gents!

 

DC

[PLC1966]

tonyot, where did you get the top (pencil drawing) picture from ?  I have this picture in a book dated about 1940, published I guess by 'the ministry',  follows some mythical character through joining the RAF, runs through trades, badges, aircraft, roles, etc.  Fighter pictures stop at Spitfire Mk V which gives me 1940.  

I picked it up at a jumble sale @35 years ago, but it has no front or back cover so I am just interested in identifying the book. 

[Graham Boak]

Colour photo(s) of other aircraft in the unit show TSS.  Given the variability of this scheme in different film and filters, I'd assume it was TSS here as well.  The code is indeed T8 not TB.

 

PS Boston T8K in TSS on the front cover of Sky Over Scapa.  The book also includes another photo of this Blenheim, presumably taken on the same 1945 sortie.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Graham Boak

[mhaselden]

23 hours ago, AndrewCJ50 said:

Dear Fellow Modellers

 

Some of you may know of a book entitled 6 weeks of a Blenheim summer recalling Alastair Panton's memoirs flying recce operations during the battle of France in 1940.  I assume these reconnaissance Blenheims would have had a camera set up for their role?  Was it set up in the bomb bay like with the Mosquito?  Does anyone have any ideas or photos on how they might have been configured?

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

Sorry for dragging the OP back to the fore but I'd never heard of that book.  Is it worth a read?  All opinions welcome.

[occa]

21 hours ago, tonyot said:

There was a camera window in the rear compartment, behind the bomb bay;

....

You can just seen the camera hatch on this Fleet Air Arm Blenheim Mk.IV;

Also,.....the Navigator/Observer could open up the nose escape hatch and use a hand held camer too;

....

All the best

                 Tony

 

Nice photo !!

What is the long narrow elevation that runs on the right bottom side behind the camera window ?

Also what are the tube and what looks like the end of a ladder on the other side ?

[Graham Boak]

I asked that - please can we have posting numbers back!  One suggestion was that the tube is a flare chute, which seems reasonable enough, and that the apparent ladder is just that.  However I don't think so, as it appears to be under the fuselage rather than sticking downwards - the Blenheim has foot/handholds, as I recall.  Perhaps it's a frame for mounting tow targets?  Against that is the lack of any protection for the tailwheel.  I presume that the strake is for strengthening, possibly a late mod(?) to the type, but no-one has commented yet.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Graham Boak

[AndrewCJ50]

Dear Colleagues

 

Thanks for the brilliant photos and figure, bang on target!  I don't have the Airfix Blenheim yet, does it come with a camera opening in the underside?

I can thoroughly recommend Blenheim summer, Panton was very comfortable with the Blenheim although he was under no illusions about the outcome of meeting a Messerschmitt!

Regards

Andrew

[tonyot]

Hiya Andrew,

                    The Airfix kit doesn`t come with the camera opening, I think that it had a cover to keep the glass clean. It is easy enough to drill out though and glaze using white glue,.....that is what I do.

 

PLC1966- Don`t know the book,...sorry,....just had the drawing for a while in my files.

 

Cheers

             Tony

[Walter Lindekens]

Hi all,

 

Firstly, Six Weeks of Blenheim Summer is a wonderful book, definitely worth the read (even got my 16 yr old daughter to read it and she agreed!).

 

As for those mistery bits,  the bulges on the bomb doors are there to allow them to fully close when carrying 500 lb bombs.    The strake on the lower rear fuselage is a beam approach aerial but judging from photos not many Blenheims were equipped with beam approach equipment and the relevant aerial.   The tube is in fact the outlet for the trailing aerial, the outlet itself IS actually a tube but on most Blenheims it is enveloped by a streamlined fairing.

 

As for the ladder/aerial thinghy, well this is in fact a carrying frame for the forward light series carrier (LSC) - not fitted in the photo but the frame was often left in place when the light series carriers were removed.   Initially the LSC were carried under the lower rear fuselage, one after the other and on the fuselage centre line.    When they decided to enlarge the camera hatch a bit so that the Wop/Ag could use it as an emergency escape the forward LSC got a bit in the way and it was re-positioned a bit to the left of the fuselage centre line.    This necessitated moving the mounting lugs for the forward LSC to the left but because of the curvature of the fuselage extended lugs were fitted.   This kept the carrying frame and LSC level.

 

Below photo shows what it's all about but for some reason the carrying frame has been wrongly mounted, the end of the frame protruding beyond the mounting lugs should point to the left of the aircraft, moving the LSC further to the left!

 

 

Above information was obtained from the Blenheim Mk IV Modification Leaflets held by the RAFM Hendon.

 

Finally, about that photo showing the observer hand holding that camera, IMHO this was just posed for the press.   The forward escape hatch is not hinged and meant to be ejected in case of need.  It can be removed from the outside for easy access to the front fuselage but I just cannot see the observer opening it in flight and then stow it inside the front cockpit.  Just my thought on that.

 

Cheers,

Walter

 

 

[Seahawk]

Quality post, Walter.  Look forward to hearing more from you.

[DaveCromie]

On 04/11/2016 at 6:58 PM, Graham Boak said:

Colour photo(s) of other aircraft in the unit show TSS.  Given the variability of this scheme in different film and filters, I'd assume it was TSS here as well.  The code is indeed T8 not TB.

 

PS Boston T8K in TSS on the front cover of Sky Over Scapa.  The book also includes another photo of this Blenheim, presumably taken on the same 1945 sortie.

 

Cheers for that Graham! I've never seen TSS with such strong contrast, but given what you are saying about other aircraft in the unit wearing it it does make sense.Also, thanks for confirming the T8 code.

 

On 05/11/2016 at 4:12 PM, Walter Lindekens said:

Hi all,

 

Firstly, Six Weeks of Blenheim Summer is a wonderful book, definitely worth the read (even got my 16 yr old daughter to read it and she agreed!).

 

As for those mistery bits,  the bulges on the bomb doors are there to allow them to fully close when carrying 500 lb bombs.    The strake on the lower rear fuselage is a beam approach aerial but judging from photos not many Blenheims were equipped with beam approach equipment and the relevant aerial.   The tube is in fact the outlet for the trailing aerial, the outlet itself IS actually a tube but on most Blenheims it is enveloped by a streamlined fairing.

 

As for the ladder/aerial thinghy, well this is in fact a carrying frame for the forward light series carrier (LSC) - not fitted in the photo but the frame was often left in place when the light series carriers were removed.   Initially the LSC were carried under the lower rear fuselage, one after the other and on the fuselage centre line.    When they decided to enlarge the camera hatch a bit so that the Wop/Ag could use it as an emergency escape the forward LSC got a bit in the way and it was re-positioned a bit to the left of the fuselage centre line.    This necessitated moving the mounting lugs for the forward LSC to the left but because of the curvature of the fuselage extended lugs were fitted.   This kept the carrying frame and LSC level.

 

Below photo shows what it's all about but for some reason the carrying frame has been wrongly mounted, the end of the frame protruding beyond the mounting lugs should point to the left of the aircraft, moving the LSC further to the left!

Above information was obtained from the Blenheim Mk IV Modification Leaflets held by the RAFM Hendon.

 

Finally, about that photo showing the observer hand holding that camera, IMHO this was just posed for the press.   The forward escape hatch is not hinged and meant to be ejected in case of need.  It can be removed from the outside for easy access to the front fuselage but I just cannot see the observer opening it in flight and then stow it inside the front cockpit.  Just my thought on that.

 

Cheers,

Walter

 

 

 

Walter, that is some outstanding information and will contribute massively towards my future build, thank you for posting it.

 

Cheers

 

DC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately the image comes from a book that is entirely in Russian so I have had to rely on Google Translate for the translation.....

 

"The technician transmits crew "Blenheim» Mk IV aerial cameras, France. On the fuselage of the aircraft can be seen early type "nouzarta" - cheesecake is glued to the side, behind the bow cabin"

 

Edited November 6, 2016 by DaveCromie
Stupidity!