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Procopius

Восток — дело тонкое (1/72 Trumpeter Su-24M FENCER-D)

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36 minutes ago, Procopius said:

Redhead. Subtle but important difference.

 

 

<<< Irish redhead.

 

Worse still...

 

<<< Ulster redhead and descended from the Uí Néill. Although the propensity of Corvidae to continually surround me might give you some idea as to who watches over me...If you see me washing clothes at a ford, RUN, just RUN!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(It won't do you any good tho).

 

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That flat coat has certainly made a difference PC. Nice. 

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14 hours ago, Procopius said:

 

Oh, it's real. And it's spectacular.

 

 

+10 points for the out of the blue Seinfeld reference.  +5 more points for making that reference about a young Terri Hatcher. Nice.

 

I just weather it till I'm happy.  Bunk the rest of it. 

 

Did I read your posts right and you dislike enamels? I need some help, I grew up in a body shop so lacquer thinner is like mothers milk to me. But the old lady doesn't want the kids "exposed to possibly carcinogenic fluids." Before I left the hobby years ago she made the same demands and I only found one acrylic line I liked, Tamiya.  Now that I'm back Tamiya paints are really hard to get around here. What do you use and or recommend? 

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36 minutes ago, Thud4444 said:

Did I read your posts right and you dislike enamels? I need some help, I grew up in a body shop so lacquer thinner is like mothers milk to me. But the old lady doesn't want the kids "exposed to possibly carcinogenic fluids." Before I left the hobby years ago she made the same demands and I only found one acrylic line I liked, Tamiya.  Now that I'm back Tamiya paints are really hard to get around here. What do you use and or recommend? 

 

Thud, I do indeed use acrylics, almost exclusively, with some branching out into lacquers for metallics (Alclad, AK ExxxxxTREME Metals) and enamels for weathering (but rarely). I can't source Tamiya locally, so I buy it from Spruebrothers, Scalehobbyist, or Tower Hobbies. Spruebrothers are the most expensive and the least likely to have a particular color in stock, but they do ship fast. Scalehobbyist is cheap but ships slow and has high base shipping charges. I think Tower is the distributer in the USA, and they have free shipping over $50 -- they also distribute Hasegawa kits and are where I got my $15 Hasegawa Eurofighters when they had a sale a while back. I also use (sucks in air):

 

Modelmaster Acrylic

Tamiya

Lifecolor (behaves very weirdly, and feels super weird when dry, but @Cookenbacher gets amazing results from it)

Akan (weak paint adhesion)

Xtracrylixs (very poor adhesion)

Misterkit WWI colors (hands down the worst paint I have ever airbrushed, but beautiful when dried, no reason to ever touch it if you're not doing WWI)

Gunze Aqueous (which I buy from a Croatian guy on ebay)

Pollyscale (when old bottles of it can be found)

Hataka (haven't tried yet, but bought some because nobody else makes Have Glass Grey)

Humbrol (second worst paint I have ever airbrushed, but turned out okay; not great, but okay)

 

Almost all of which I source online. I have a lot of paint, because I like to pretend throwing money at a problem is identical to working diligently to fix it.

 

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I almost exclusively use acrylics these days and like you guys I find Tamiya to be the best all round compromise between ease of use, accuracy and availability.....But for certain special tasks you can't beat these:

 

Authentics_zps9slo7whl.jpg

 

Don't worry PC enamels airbrush beautifully, way better than most acrylics.....But they sure do stink the place up.  :shutup:

 

Acrylics are still the way forward IMHOB)

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1 hour ago, Procopius said:

Also, dullcoated the top of the Fencer, she looks pretty okay to me now:

 

Bang on.

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On 09/12/2016 at 8:36 PM, Ascoteer said:

 

First B2 flypast... at RIAT was 1997.

I was there, watching it through the sensors on the Royal Artllery Alvis Stormer / Starstreak...

Remember hearing about that, along with just about everybody else in the British military I think, later that evening. "Oh look, the ultra-expensive invisible stealth bomber isn't invisible, just ultra-expensive" :lol: 

 

On 15/12/2016 at 5:19 AM, Procopius said:

A comment I saw elsewhere about people always insisting on loading their models to the gills* got me thinking, so this jet will only have the two big gasbags and the KAB-500 laser-guided bombs -- she wasn't based in Afghanistan, so would likely be travelling light to bomb some hapless hamlet.

 

* = Obviously they had a dead soul, because fully-loaded jets look cool. 

So long as that hapless hamlet isn't in Turkey...

 

4 hours ago, perdu said:

And so the world crumbles

Not only has Egbert revealed he wed a psychopath, now he thinks I DO weathering or preshading

I detest all that phony cr*p so much I have ceased buying magazines that regularly use them as 'completed builds by our favourite model maker'

I saw a magazine recently with beautiful scale drawings worth a king's ransom to me and any other TYPE X fan, and a veritable plethora of photographs of said machines in service

Lots of opportunities for weathering them, maritime ops do cause havoc to paintwork I concede willingly

But the model shown, a thing of beauty in the plastic then had deep black shaded underlines at every panel

Not one of the many photographs illustrating the article had lines of even a slight similarity

"Paint What You See Shall Be The First Law"

But I do admit to dusting on artists pastels and then de-dusting them so the dust comes away leaving a memory of their existence around some seams and surfaces thus treated or in some cases left to give a more solid area of tint

I've been taken to task over my outspoken (OK out-written) opinions of this school of artworks before

I expect to have my erroneous ways pointed out to me again

:(

I'm with you there fella. Stopped buying magazines when the black panel line wash became officialy The Only Way To Finish A Model since I hate the jigsaw puzzle look it gave them.

 

Keep up the good and subtle work PC. This one is looking grand.

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Just now, Col. said:

So long as that hapless hamlet isn't in Turkey...

 

Shooting back with real weapons, typical shabby NATO trick.

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23 minutes ago, Col. said:

I'm with you there fella. Stopped buying magazines when the black panel line wash became officially The Only Way To Finish A Model since I hate the jigsaw puzzle look it gave them.

And before that it was fine point black technical pen panel lines. It looked incredibly crisp, but utterly unrealistic.

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No PC let's be honest here.....Shooting someone in the back with real weapons.  :mellow:

 

Chicken:poop:s didn't fancy trying it again once Mr. Sukhoi's younger bretheren were in theatre though did they?  :hmmm:

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

No PC let's be honest here.....Shooting someone in the back with real weapons.  

 

 

Play stupid games, win dumb prizes.

 

In any case, I think we fall on opposite sides of the "delightful/not delightful to see Russian jets blow up" divide, but I like you far too much personally to wish us to go at it hammer and tongs about it.

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Dude I don't want to see anyone's jets blow up!  :analintruder:

 

TBH I find it quite alarming that a fellow so thoroughly pleasant as yourself might do so.....I think you really do need to escape the clutches of your nation's media, it's not good for you.  :coolio:

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So I'm trying to weather the underbelly of the Su-24. They get pretty dirty:

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia-Air-Force/Sukhoi-Su-24M2/2233290

 

SU-24MR_(46W).jpg

 

86360702_8636070133.jpg

 

stock-photo-moscow-russia-may-soviet-str

 

 

At first I tried to replicate the oil streaking I saw in a photo in the Yefim Gordon book, but Things Did Not Go Well:

 

31674037556_c6f5943db3_h.jpg20161217_203532 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

So I dug out my oil pants and all of my enamel washes and tried again.

 

30901848623_906d910597_h.jpg20161217_210030 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

30901848753_50bd35c398_h.jpg20161217_210016 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

31596127751_b620cf62a4_h.jpg20161217_210011 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Not quite, but it feels closer, you know? I welcome suggestions.

 

 

 

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Here's my :2c: (as an AFV modeller):

 

Right now I'd suggest using a flat brush moistened in thinners to drag everything into alignment with the airflow, don't try to simulate the general smoke staining with oils, they're the wrong medium.  For that I'd be inclined to use Mig's P023 Black Smoke dry pigment, but much later in the weathering process (after the matt coat).  I understand that airbrushing Tamiya Smoke can work well for this too, but I've never tried it myself, so I can't honestly recommend it.

 

I'd definitely suggest trying the dot and drag technique I described above for some of the more prominent linear staining.....Place a dot of neat oil paint (much smaller than a pinhead, it's strong stuff) where the stain starts, then use a brush just barely moistened with thinners to drag it out in the direction of the airflow.  Be very careful not to overload your 'removal-brush' with thinners, you don't want to flood the area you are working on (think of it as a bizarre back to front form of dry-brushing).

 

Be sparing with the paint to start with as you can easily build the effect up in layers, personally I'd do the browns first with a mix based on Burnt-Sienna and then I'd use a Lamp Black based mix over the top for the really prominent stains.....Above all, don't rush it, you have the best part of a day to work before the oils start to set up, and even then it's advisable to put a thin coat of Klear between layers, to avoid the risk of removing your earlier work.

 

Remember I normally do tanks, so my advice may not be the best for the subject.....We'll find out shortly as I'm just waiting on a coat of Klear to cure on my Bf.110, I'll be weathering along with you in a bit.  :coolio:

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That first photograph of your model looks like the underside of a Spitfire! I think the others definitely look better, although it still looks like you need to blend in or smooth the back end of the streaking near the tail, if that makes any sense at all.

 

Regards,

 

Jason (who does NOT like Russian/Soviet aircraft being blown up)

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Sorry for the delay,  I had to take a Rogue 1 break,  excellent movie BTW.

 

No experience with vallejo paint? They  seems to be the most common around here outside of MM acrylics. 

 

I have a long standing rule about buying my paints locally.  I have no problem ordering everything else. I just like being able to run down to the store when I run out.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Thud4444 said:

No experience with vallejo paint? They  seems to be the most common around here outside of MM acrylics. 

 

 

Oh, completely forgot! Yes, I've used both regular and Model Air Vallejo. It sprays beautifully, but it will flake off the model at the slightest provocation. I also have some (strong) doubts about how accurate the historical colors are. Here's a Lancaster that I did, using Vallejo for the upper colors:

 

31339688940_5cf9e15790_h.jpg20161217_221022 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Mighty Ropey, how I love you so.

 

Anyway, I used Vallejo but don't see myself ever doing so again if I can avoid it, since I do a lot of masking (because I'm careless). 

 

36 minutes ago, Thud4444 said:

I have a long standing rule about buying my paints locally.  I have no problem ordering everything else. I just like being able to run down to the store when I run out.

 

I respect that. If I had to pick between the two -- bit of a Sophie's choice -- I'd go with Modelmaster over Vallejo, because it's behaved a bit better for me when airbrushed.

 

So while the enamels slowly dry (or perhaps, like Dread Cthulhu, they merely slumber deathlessly, never dry nor wet, but dreaming), I'm working on the stores:

 

31339689970_d7a00ba58f_h.jpg20161217_220849 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Fun fact about the KAB-500s in the kit -- they have two holes in the bomb that I thought were where it attached to the pylon.

 

31339689320_88d2357d11_h.jpg20161217_220909 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Well, I was sort of right.

 

A little piece has to go INSIDE the bomb when you assemble it, so that it can link up with the pylon:

 

30870906194_85f05468cc_h.jpg20161217_220904 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

"Wow, what an innovative and unique approach to the stores," I said when I discovered this (heavily paraphrased).

 

But was I downhearted? NO!

 

I stuck pin tips in the pylon and glued them there, then trimmed down the pins:

 

30870905094_5090b0049b_h.jpg20161217_220918 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Tadaaaaaaa:

 

31566062012_28a38c6302_h.jpg20161217_220942 by Edward IX, on Flickr

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Nice get out there, PC.

 

On the belly of the beast, especially around

panels under the engines, I sometimes just

use an automatic pencil in the engraved panel 

line and the screw holes. Different grades of lead

can give different results.Then with a

moistened finger tip 'drag' it to the rear slightly.

If you don't like the result then a wet cloth will

(usually) remove any excess.

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That's looking amazing PC.

 

My favourite weathering medium has become cheap water based tempera paints. They can be watered down to create the consistency you need and are easily removed and reapplied. Then ground up pastel chalk over that, if desired.

 

IMG_0303_zps31494dff.jpg

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I like that weathering PC, but I'm no expert. 

Good save on the bomb mounts - they look much better than the kit parts.

I use Vallejo Model Air a lot and, now I've changed to Stynylrez rather than Vallejo primer, don't get any problem with peeling when masking, even quickly after spraying (like the same day). I'm with you on the colours though, especially in the 'sets' - need to be checked against the full range - for example the camo green.

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Much better ejecting devices PC

 

Those jets get messy don't they

 

That drop n drag sounds interesting I MAY try it some day

 

Show wot u C   ;)

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Looks ace PC. I love a weathering debate, you should shouldn't do X because of X.

( Did you see my Kaydet build?) I think you might have.:lol:

I personally believe its your model, paint it how you like, put flowers on it if that blows your hair back.:giles:

I like a nice weathered bird, gives her some kind of implied back story. I have used oils. ( The brown trouser technique ) this worked well on my Swordfish and Vampire but it's a little unruly. For general light line pick outs I use Flory washes. They are so easy to use and as I found yesterday can be watered down ALOT.

Paint on in localised area or all over if you wish, then rub off. You can rub it all off and start again if you're not happy. Honestly they're fool proof. Sure they can be a little expensive if you buy a whole set. But I tend to only use dark dirt and black, £5 a shot not too bad.

give em a go if that's the look you're going for, you'll be surprised. Btw watch out for the bubbles, decant first. You can tip it back later.

hope the fam get better soon. 

Happy madelling chief, take care.

 

Johnny. (Not a Flory rep) weather wash.

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The soiling of your undersides is definitely heading in the right direction PC.

 

The Sarge, Cookie and Pete in L. all cover the essential points. From my humbly-minimal experience so far, the only thing I would amplify is:

 

1. Whatever the medium, bold strokes rather than timid when simulating the effects of airflow.

2. Layering and variety of application to give visual depth; the optical sum we see results from the accumulation of individual effects over time. I say that because I have to keep constantly reminding myself that this part of the build is a process, rather than a single and easily accomplished master-stroke.

 

Addenda a few minutes later:

Reading this back reminds me that  layering/accumulation is something fundamental in designing the 'look' of narrative spaces in films to create a believably consistent world for the viewer. Blade Runner is an oft-cited example of this:

https://books.google.ie/books?id=fM7XDOmi9jUC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=ridley+scott+visual+layering+blade+runner&source=bl&ots=GSr7CuRR-T&sig=JCPTPpNZALv0NrjvJiBR4vdqoTI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUsdOKr_3QAhWnIsAKHQiaDWYQ6AEIJDAD#v=onepage&q=ridley scott visual layering blade runner&f=false

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13 hours ago, Ascoteer said:

 

 

<<< Irish redhead.

 

Worse still...

 

<<< Ulster redhead and descended from the Uí Néill. Although the propensity of Corvidae to continually surround me might give you some idea as to who watches over me...If you see me washing clothes at a ford, RUN, just RUN!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(It won't do you any good tho).

 

I love a woman with "spirit",said it before,I'll say it again,I love red'eads,that's why I married one over 30 years ago and still am married to her.

 

You're getting there re the Grubby Fencer Ed,just get that book off Santa,it's really worth it.

 

FWIW,I don't like acrylics to airbrush,thin 'em nicely and they brush well,but for airbrushing I much prefer enamels.

 

Miggers,red'ead loving dinosaur.

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