AU-1 Corsair

[boom.boom]

For some time I am trying to grab one of hasegawa`s AU-1 in 1/48 but without success, so have to pull out alternative! Thinking about converting some other corsair to AU-1, but dilemma is which one? As I can understand AU-1 was derived from F4U-5 but visually, at least to me, looks more like F4U-7 without under chin scoop!? I am thinking to convert F4U-7 into AU-1 by deleting under chin? Is cowling right then or still have some issues with shape? I also read, somewhere on net, that wheels are different in type (especially rims), and other little differences...?

Should I use F4U-5 instead F4U-7?

Any suggestions are welcome!

[Jure Miljevic]

Hi, boom.boom

I understand that all three sub-types shared the same shape of cowling aft of the front ring, so more or less it comes down to a question of personal preference. My personal choice would be F4U-5, but you do as you please. Otherwise, AU-1 also had modified (armoured?) wing intakes and there is also a controversy of sorts about the version's overall length. Cheers

Jure

[Troy Smith]

The  AU-1 was  a specific ground attack version made for USMC,  the French were so impressed that they  asked to have them with engine from the F4U-4,  an that is what  a F4U-7 is, an AU-1 with a supercharged engine.

 

I  was pondering the same thing, the easiest thing is to convert the F4U-7 back,  it's just needs the chin scoop  removing.

 

Given you are in Serbia, Revell of Germany reboxed the F4U-7,  so it's reasonably easy to find in Europe.

 

I  asked the  same  thing, for the same reason a few months  back

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1448156504

 

Quote

The AU-1 is based on the F4U-5 airframe, with a single-stage supercharged R-2800. The F4U-7 was based on the AU-1, but with (literally) the engine from an F4U-4, which required adding the chin scoop. 
Short history lesson: 
The -5 extended the forward fuselage by a foot, and had a "pear-shaped" cross-section to accommodate the air inlet ducting of the twin-spool supercharger. Even though the AU-1 didn't have a second-stage supercharger, the "pear-shape" remained, with the cheek inlets removed/faired over. Without the need for intercoolers, the wing-root mounted oil coolers migrated into the fuselage and the vane arrangement in the wing root intakes was simplified. 
Then along comes the French with an order for 100 examples of a more powerful/higher altitude version of the AU-1. Vought's minimal tooling solution for this low-volume custom order was to install engines (quite literally stripped from surplus -4s) into the AU-1 airframe. The main visual difference was the installation of the chin scoop. There are other minor differences, but removing the chin scoop from a -7 will certainly result in a satisfying AU-1. 
 

 

so, if you remove the lower intake, and change the intake vanes, which Hase make have not changed, as the used the same base  kit  for the -5, AuU-1 and -7 kits.

 

Note, there are a few glitches in the kit,  there is/was a Jaguar detail kit which helped a  lot

http://www.kitreview.com/reviews/f4ucockpitreviewdw_1.htm

 

The Hase kit cockpit is too shallow,  there is  a shot in the Detail and Scale book showing one under construction, clearly showing  the  depth.

Question like this are better asked, and  searched for on Hyperscale, as they have a large US readership.   

eg I  searched for "AU-1 from F4U-7" nd got this

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/search?searchterm=Au-1+from+f4u-7&sort=match

 

HTH

T

 

PS Hase have just  redone the AU-1 as one of their interminable ltd edition overpriced reboxngs

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HA07426

 

 

available cheaper direct  from Japan if  you don't get hammered by customs in Serbia..

 

 

 

[Seawinder]

Hey boom.boom

I'm currently finishing up a Hasegawa AU-1 and have both the F4U-5 and -7 in my stash. I think (as I see Troy as already said) that it'll actually be easier to make the conversion from the F4U-7 kit. First, that boxing provides the sprue with the 10 wing pylons and the appropriate wing root intakes. Second, you're only going to have to remove one (bottom) cowling scoop as opposed to two for the -5. You will have to do some filling/reshaping either way, I think.

 

FWIW, I used a True Details resin cockpit, which provides a complete replacement for the tub. It also has three instrument panel options. The Hasegawa kit only provides the one seen on the F4U-5N, which has a prominent radar scope. I don't know if the TD set fixes the shallowness issue, but it looks good enough for me.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Seawinder
typo

[boom.boom]

Thanks You Jure Miljevic on advice, but somehow it looks easier to to go with F4u-7.

 

Troy, I do not have words to thank You enough!!! You solved all my dilemmas about AU-1!!! I already have one F4U-7 1/48 revell/hasegawa, but she is reserved for Suez crisis... One our (local) fellow is just giving up from modeling and he is offering the same revell`s repacking of hasegawa corsair, so...! I do not know what else to tell You, except...if ever road bring You to Belgrade grill and rakija on me!!! 

 

Thank You Seawinder, really thank You!!! And I am thinking the same way... It is considerably easier to erase one scoop then two! And I even didn`t think on right number of wing pylons and wing root intakes, so...F4U-7 really doing job! Hmm, wasn`t aware about issue with shallowness of hasa cockpit, have to solve it with some aftermarket! As You said, True Detail sounds like good options because right instrument panel! 

 

Really thanks for all from You guys!!! You all just done outstanding job to me !!!

[hoppie]

Another difference between the versions is the position of the exhausts on the fuselage sides.

On the F4U-7 and the AU-1 these are in the same position. The ones on the F4U-5 sit quite a bit higher.

[Troy Smith]

this got me thinking about the cockpit, I did the research a few years ago... so it took a bit of refreshing of the memory, and finding the requisite images.

 

It seems the Detail and Scale F4U-4 - F4U-7 Vol 2 is OOP, and is going for silly amounts on Amazon, so, under 'fair use'

 

AU-1 cockpit

 

 

note the armoured seat, the Hase kit has the same seat in  all  the kits, so it's wrong for the AU-1 and F4U-7

 

regarding the cockpit, this took some searching up,  here's the construction shot, 

 

note the slope of the side consoles, and bottom of instrument panel side.

 

note Hasegawa make the side consoles horizontal, while the real thing slope down,   as the depth of the side consoles are the right depth, this makes the cockpit a little too shallow, so  the floor a little too high, and instrument panel side consoles too short,  

or...the side part of  the IP are too long, and the side consoles need angling up,  

 

Probably not a big deal with closed cockpit..

 

here's the kit one from here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234979096-revell-148-f4u-7-corsair-en-algerie-cest-fini/

 

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234979096-revell-148-f4u-7-corsair-en-algerie-cest-fini/

 

 

Not screamingly horrible,  the Jaguar set does have the armoured seat,  can't remember how  much of the cockpit it corrects,  I'll dig it out later, I did see the F4U-7 in the  loft, but the Jaguar cockpit is elsewhere.. so can't check right now..

 

also worth a read

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1218624759/Opinion+on+Hasegawa's+F4U-5+Corsair

F4U-5 

 

compare with the construction image above.  Note angled consoles.

 

HTH

T

[Jure Miljevic]

No problem, boom.boom. Just to refresh my memory, I dug out my Revell/Hasegawa kit together with an ancient Heller AU-1. Fuselage of the latter seems to be a mix of at least three different F4U versions but, oddly enough, it has wheel hubs of different, more elaborate, type than the former. A quick check on admittedly not very sharp photos of French Corsairs during Suez campaign (its sixtieth anniversary is passing these days) indicates that Heller's rendition is a closer match. It is probably just a question of different types of brakes, but if you have the old Heller kit, get its wheels. Cheers

Jure

P.S.: Just curious, which colour scheme did you choose for your AU-1, Indochina, Algeria ...?

[Antoine]

On 28 octobre 2016 at 9:47 PM, Troy Smith said:

The  AU-1 was  a specific ground attack version made for USMC,  the French were so impressed that they  asked to have them with engine from the F4U-4,  an that is what  a F4U-7 is, an AU-1 with a supercharged engine.

 

Not exactly. Aéronavale needed an aircraft capable of Carrier defense, something the AU-1 was not designed for. The other two options, Sea Fury and Bearcat were no more in production, so entered the AU-1/P&W R-2800-18W combo, named F4U-7.

Ordered early in 1952, first flight in july, and last F4U-7 build (also the last of all Corsairs) out of Dallas in january 1953.

14F is created soon after, the first unit to fly the F4U-7 from Karouba, Tunisia.

Due to Dien Bien Phu battle, 14F is sent in urgency to Indochina without its aircraft, as they'll use 25 AU-1 delivered by USS Saipan. 24 of them were not in flying conditions, and it took some time for the US and French ground crews to get them fit to fly.

 

So the -7 was the first Corsair in French service, and no, the -1 wasn't that much impressive at first sight.

Things changed however, and it became very popular with air and ground crews due to its speed, weapons, stability as a gun platform, and robustness.

[Seawinder]

On 10/29/2016 at 0:58 PM, hoppie said:

Another difference between the versions is the position of the exhausts on the fuselage sides.

On the F4U-7 and the AU-1 these are in the same position. The ones on the F4U-5 sit quite a bit higher.

Good point, hoppie. And builder beware: Hasegawa didn't alter the piece to which the exhausts are supposed to attach, so one has to attach the upper side ones to the fuselage itself and estimate the placement. I chopped a bit of the back end of each so they wouldn't protrude quite as far.

[Bruce Archer]

On 10/28/2016 at 11:18 AM, boom.boom said:

For some time I am trying to grab one of hasegawa`s AU-1 in 1/48 but without success, so have to pull out alternative! Thinking about converting some other corsair to AU-1, but dilemma is which one? As I can understand AU-1 was derived from F4U-5 but visually, at least to me, looks more like F4U-7 without under chin scoop!? I am thinking to convert F4U-7 into AU-1 by deleting under chin? Is cowling right then or still have some issues with shape? I also read, somewhere on net, that wheels are different in type (especially rims), and other little differences...?

Should I use F4U-5 instead F4U-7?

Any suggestions are welcome!

Hi!

    To convert the F4U-5, or -7 you need the cowl front and the oil cooler intakes.Shoot me an e-mail at:

bad at cfl dot rr dot com   and I may be able to help with parts you need.

 

Bruce

  

[Don McIntyre]

On 10/29/2016 at 3:35 PM, Troy Smith said:

 

 

 

HTH

T

That cockpit looks very much like the F4U-5N cockpit. Note the RADAR display.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Don McIntyre
Delete extraneous quotes

[Seawinder]

10 hours ago, Don McIntyre said:

That cockpit looks very much like the F4U-5N cockpit. Note the RADAR display.

Yes indeed. As I remarked some posts above, Hasegawa has the same instrument panel (appropriate only to the -5N) in all three of the late Corsair kits. The True Details cockpit set provides three different IPs, not to mention the two black boxes mounted on the top of the hood above the IP.

[Fernando]

Hi, all,

 

Didn't the -5 cheek scoops carry the shape backwards into the cowling, giving a "splashed" contour, while the -7 and AU-1 are rounder?

 

Fernando

[Otakar]

There is a shape difference between the French corsair and the AU-1. The closest you can do on an AU-1 is to take a F4U-5 and plug the two intakes on the cowling. That was the main visual difference between the two. The cowling on the F4U-7 is completely different.

I worked on many of these when I ran the museum restoration section in Quantico back in 2001-2005

[Fernando]

Just now, Otakar said:

There is a shape difference between the French corsair and the AU-1. The closest you can do on an AU-1 is to take a F4U-5 and plug the two intakes on the cowling. That was the main visual difference between the two. The cowling on the F4U-7 is completely different.

I worked on many of these when I ran the museum restoration section in Quantico back in 2001-2005

Hi, Otakar,

True. It is the -7 which is rounder and different. The AU-1 has the scoops simply faired over. The "space" (to name it somehow) is still there.

 

Fernando

Edited November 3, 2016 by Fernando

[Otakar]

The -7 has a very odd cowling. It is particular only to that aircraft. It has the same original shape as the -5 and AU but has an extra opening in the middle. So basically an AU cowling with the center intake added like on the -4. I guess you could make an AU out of an -7 if you fill the center opening and than grind off all the material which would have been added for the center scoop. I personally like the Hasegawa kit, but it has one major shape flaw. The fuselage on the -5 and later Corsairs is the same as the earlier birds but the cockpit was raised for better visibility. This is the reason for the extra fairing at the top rear of the canopy blister.  So, the top little fairing is ADDED to the standard fuselage shape. The Hasegawa Corsair has it that the canopy top is at the same level as the -4 and earlier airframes and the fuselage spine is lowered. This makes the Corsair look very slender from the profile on the Hasegawa.  Wit a little surgery, this can be fixed.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by Otakar

[Troy Smith]

5 hours ago, Otakar said:

There is a shape difference between the French corsair and the AU-1.

yes, a F4U-7 has an added chin  scoop

 

5 hours ago, Otakar said:

 

 

The closest you can do on an AU-1 is to take a F4U-5 and plug the two intakes on the cowling. That was the main visual difference between the two. The cowling on the F4U-7 is completely different.

is it?

this is an AU-1

 

this is an F4U-7

 

 

apart from the chin scoop on the -7, same basic cowling from what  I can see, the light reflections help to show the  shape

 

from http://www.frenchwings.net/navy/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3

 

lots of AU-1 and F4U-7 pics

 

5 hours ago, Otakar said:

I worked on many of these when I ran the museum restoration section in Quantico back in 2001-2005

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Vought_F4U_Corsairs

the only Corsair listed at Quantico is this

FG-1A
13459 - National Museum of the Marine Corps in Quantico, Virginia.

 

There are no listed AU-1's, and four F4U-7's in the preserved list, none at  Quantico, so how did you work on an AU-1 or F4U-7?

 

 

here's F4U-5

 

note side scoop on cowl

Marine F4U-5N

 

note position of exhaust

 

this is an AU-1 exhaust for comparison

 

 

from  a 1/48th modeller's perspective, backdating  the F4U-7 to an AU-1 is going to be easier than using a F4U-5, as stated above as it has same exhaust and all the pylons.

 

remember that the Hase kits  have a line  from  where the used an insert on the it mould to allow to do  the -5 and Au-1/-7 kits

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1448156504/F4U-7+minus+chin+intake+%3D+AU-1...in+model+terms%3F

Quote

The AU-1 is based on the F4U-5 airframe, with a single-stage supercharged R-2800. The F4U-7 was based on the AU-1, but with (literally) the engine from an F4U-4, which required adding the chin scoop. 
Short history lesson: 
The -5 extended the forward fuselage by a foot, and had a "pear-shaped" cross-section to accommodate the air inlet ducting of the twin-spool supercharger. Even though the AU-1 didn't have a second-stage supercharger, the "pear-shape" remained, with the cheek inlets removed/faired over. Without the need for intercoolers, the wing-root mounted oil coolers migrated into the fuselage and the vane arrangement in the wing root intakes was simplified. 
Then along comes the French with an order for 100 examples of a more powerful/higher altitude version of the AU-1. Vought's minimal tooling solution for this low-volume custom order was to install engines (quite literally stripped from surplus -4s) into the AU-1 airframe. The main visual difference was the installation of the chin scoop. There are other minor differences, but removing the chin scoop from a -7 will certainly result in a satisfying AU-1. 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

On 02/11/2016 at 14:49, Don McIntyre said:

That cockpit looks very much like the F4U-5N cockpit. Note the RADAR display.

Hi Don

it  was used to illustrate the problems with Hase cockpit, which is the same parts on the  whole family of kits, -5,-5N, AU-1 and  -7, that of being a ;little shallow due to the lack of angle on consoles, which I was trying show.

I'm going to  have t collate various Corsair kits  and bits  for comparison later, which are in two  different places

 

 

[Otakar]

I love how you are an expert in all subjects and know everything. I have been working on REAL vintage aircraft for the last 30+ years both military and civilian. I chime in when I worked on a subject and actually believe I know what I am talking about. You obviously do not know how the restoration process in the civilian or military sectors work here in the US. The museum in Quantico owns over 100 aircraft of which only a small portion is listed on any register. I did not work on a -7 in Quantico but there is one here in the us in fictional US markings. as many corsairs are not painted to their particular version type. Also Quantico owns about 20 aircraft which are only about 75% complete which are not listed anywhere. They are mostly stacked in the restorations hangar. Interesting subjects such as the Curtiss NC-1, NC-3, Letov C-11, Aero S-106, Aero S-105, Douglas EF-10 and some WWII Japanese subjects also.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Otakar

[Troy Smith]

Quote

The museum in Quantico owns over 100 aircraft of which only a small portion is listed on any register. I did not work on a -7 in Quantico but there is one here in the us in fictional US markings. as many corsairs are not painted to their particular version type. Also Quantico owns about 20 aircraft which are only about 75% complete which are not listed anywhere. They are mostly stacked in the restorations hangar. Interesting subjects such as the Curtiss NC-1, NC-3, Letov C-11, Aero S-106, Aero S-105, Douglas EF-10 and some WWII Japanese subjects also.

 

Fascinating, but is one in storage  an AU-1?    

 

I have  at no  time ever claimed to be an expert, which is why if  I  make an assertion or point  I try to add documentary evidence to  illustrate my claim(s).

 

I am happy to be proved wrong, as then I know the correct information, as does anyone else reading.

 

And, in this case, my point was 

19 hours ago, Otakar said:

 

 

On 03/11/2016 at 12:11, Otakar said:

There is a shape difference between the French corsair and the AU-1. The closest you can do on an AU-1 is to take a F4U-5 and plug the two intakes on the cowling. That was the main visual difference between the two. The cowling on the F4U-7 is completely different.

I worked on many of these when I ran the museum restoration section in Quantico back in 2001-2005

 

You seemed to be saying you had worked on AU-1  and  F4U-7 Corsairs,  I pointed out there was no AU-1 listed anywhere in preservation. 

Working in a museum restoration section is fascinating, but  that  is  general point, this is specific to these Corsair versions. 

 

OK,  back to the point in question

19 hours ago, Otakar said:

The -7 has a very odd cowling. It is particular only to that aircraft. It has the same original shape as the -5 and AU but has an extra opening in the middle. So basically an AU cowling with the center intake added like on the -4. I guess you could make an AU out of an -7 if you fill the center opening and than grind off all the material which would have been added for the center scoop. I personally like the Hasegawa kit, but it has one major shape flaw. The fuselage on the -5 and later Corsairs is the same as the earlier birds but the cockpit was raised for better visibility. This is the reason for the extra fairing at the top rear of the canopy blister.  So, the top little fairing is ADDED to the standard fuselage shape. The Hasegawa Corsair has it that the canopy top is at the same level as the -4 and earlier airframes and the fuselage spine is lowered. This makes the Corsair look very slender from the profile on the Hasegawa.  Wit a little surgery, this can be fixed.  

 

the points you made seem contradictory,  

 

first you say "The cowling on the F4U-7 is completely different."  

 

The photos I  posted were to  demonstrate that  the  -7 cowling is basically a AU-1  cowl with a chin  scoop, which in your second post is what  you say,  

 

Which is what the photos of the French AU-1 and F4U-7 show, so  we are in agreement?

 

The  OP  asked about making a AU-1 if you  could not get  the AU-1  specific kit, but could get the  two kits which were reboxed in Europe by Revell, the F4U-5  and F4U-7.

 

The least work  seemed to be  to modify  the -7 cowl to make an AU-1, as the  -5  has different exhaust ports, which is why  the  Hase kit has mould  inserts  to allow different noses.

If I  seem dubious, it is because you do  not seem to  read my  posts carefully, or even respond to my  comments,  as in the discussions of various Spitfire kits, in which you seem to make up your mind, and that's  it.

 

In the Spitfire kits  case, it has been  fascinating to see how certain ideas take hold and become 'facts' where an open minded examination of them has shown conclusions that  differ.

 

The point about the F4U-5 spine is interesting, but the first I have heard  of this.  Again, can you  illustrate your point? 

[Plasto]

"The USMC acquired F4U/7 (133710) from France in early 1964 it arrived in the USMC museum in Quantico in its former French colours but was repainted in USMC markings it remained at Quantico for several years until an original USMC corsair could be obtained."

 

quoted from Squadron Signal 10220 F4U Corsair in action by Jim Sullivan ISBN 978-0-89747-633-2 page 79 bottom left.

 

HTH

Plasto

Edited November 4, 2016 by Plasto
Spelling and justification of text

[russ c]

Hi Boom Boom,

 I found this site really helpful when I did mine a bit back: http://indochine54.free.fr/cefeo/corsair.html  or search Bent Wing Pirate on Google if the link doesn`t work.

Hope this helps

Russ

[Arniec]

I have just seen on a different site that Hobby boss will bring out a AU-1 shortly.

take a look here.http://www.cybermodeler.com/special/kits/kit_acft_scale.shtml

 

Cheers,

[Troy Smith]

Hi Arnie

 

won't really help,  as unless Hobby Boss have suddenly changed the way they operate,it will be their 'F4U-7' kit wit  a new cowl

see

fabric outer wings?  .....

FWIW the only 'useful' HB Corsair is the F4U-4, as this is the variant not kitted by Tamiya or Hasegawa.

(the Hase -4 is the old Mania kit, basic detail,raised panel lines)

 

Linked review brought up one interesting point from Mungo1974

Cowl is wrong,as are the fabric wings,no underside shot so do we get the underside armour plate that was fitted to -7's and USMC AU-1's...even Hasegawa forgot that!...would be interesting to check the fuselage length too

what i see here looks to be the F4U-4 kit with French -7 decals