Color of Italian Insignia on WWI Aircraft Ansaldo SVA.5

[silver11]

Hi guys,

I'm building Ansaldo SVA.5 and looking for color reference for Italian insignia, also does anyone know what color was starts for this aircraft, the painting guide suggest Aluminum color but museum pictures suggest some darker color, any thoughts? 

[Black Knight]

Early in WW1 Italian markings were very varied.

On British supplied machine the Italians overpainted the blue ring with green so the roundel was red centre/white/green

On French supplied machines they over painted the blue centre so the roundel was green centre/white/red

The Itakians also used just tricolour stripes on the tops and bottoms of the wings, sometimes the bottom of both the lower wings and the fuselage was totally in red/white/green

The Italians also used a simple red ring with white centre, or green ring with white centre.

Late-ish is WW1 they standardised on the red centre/white/green roundel

On my SVA5 I did these late roundels and stripes under the bottom wings.

I did the fuselage in dark woodgrain

Both gleaned from period photos.

 

What are the 'starts'?

[silver11]

Thank you for your reply. Do you happened to know color reference for Italian insignia red  and green? 

I meant struts the structures that supported wings.

 

Thank you! 

[ClaudioN]

To determine colour order when looking at roundels in b&w photos (i.e., red or green in the centre?), it may help to know that rudder stripes ALWAYS had green close to the rudder post (just think of the rudder as an Italian flag flying).

 

Claudio

 

[silver11]

The roundels and rudder stripes are not the problem since I have them in decal, I was looking for color to paint under-surface of wings, but I guess I will find the paint that matching colors on decal. Now the question of struts still remains open, were they aluminum or steel?

[spitfire]

Have you visited or inquired here http://www.stormomagazine.com/

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[bertopinal]

for better understanding of Italian WW I colours i suggest you to use the Windshock Datafile as reference: #40 Ansaldo SVA 5 and #122 Ansaldo SVA 9/10 .

 Italy don't received aircrafts from UK, but only from France; usually the French roundels had only the blue center dot repainted in green. 

The planes built in Italy had the roundels green/white/red starting from outside. The lower wing was usually divided in three equal parts painted in green / natural fabric / red.

  Usually no roundels on top wing on the SVA, but simply a camouflage of green, applied with a sponge or brush, over the natural doped fabric.

Fuselage and struts in natural varnished wood, usually darker than the english or british one due the use of an american, darker, plywood.

 

r.

[silver11]

Well, roundels and rudder marking is not a question since I have them in decal (supplied with the kit), I was more inquiring about color reference for under wing, I mean if anyone knows what would be appropriate FS number, or in any other equivalent in model's paint. But if worst come worst I can probably just find matching colors to the one that I have on decal. Now, the most important question is the color of the tail, the kit's color reference suggest to make it green, however the Windshock #40 on the picture of the plane from the same unit that I'm making suggesting that this color "probably" red. So I'm in doubts now.

As for the struts, the Ansaldo S.V.A. 5 had his done in metal, the question is was it steel or was it aluminum, Datafile doesn't say anything about construction, but from the pictures it is clear that they were made from metal. Does anyone know which one?

Thank everyone for help!

 

Alex  

[JackG]

Doesn't Misterkit paint brand have a dedicated set of WWI Italian colours?  They are labeled as flag green and flag red.

http://modelskills.co.uk/33-italian

[silver11]

Thank you JackG for a great reference!!!!! This is exactly what I was looking for!

The only questions now that still not answered is the color of the tail and struts.

 

Best Regards!

 

Alex

[Oriskany]

Hi Alex

Regarding the struts, they were made in steel

Which is the unit  and serial  of your plane?

[silver11]

I'm making the middle one on the profile with number 3, they suggesting green color, however on the picture from Datafile #40 the plane with number 4 they suggest that the color is red

[Oriskany]

I made a research on a couple of italian forums.

Some modellers tried to find correct tail color for each SVA of 87ma Squadriglia, but informations and images are unly few.

 

It's sure that number  5 had green tail , other planes had white (number 1) or yellow with red stars , but color of number 3 tail is not recognizable from the only image that i found, so i suggest you to follow the instruction and paint the tail with green like most of squadron's SVA.

I didn't found any mention about red tail

 

 

[silver11]

I was referring to this page in Datafile #40 

[JackG]

Would there be any question on Fly's research on decals/tail colours? The lion badge was official for 87th Squadriglia , but their first profile has some kind of dragon snake emblem for the same squadron - pilot's personal motif?

 

regards,

Jack

[Beardie]

From what Oriskany says the tail colours were not a standard so it can't be assumed that number 3 had a red tail just because number four does. From a scan of the net it seems that '1' had a white tail, '4' was probably a red tail, '5' had a blue tail. Another had a blue tail with white stars and another yellow with red stars. I reckon that green falls into the category of 'best guess' for number 3. I am guessing that the tail colour was for personal identification and therefore no two aircraft had the same tail colour/pattern.

[silver11]

Actually, I just got through datafile again and found that #5 that thought to be blue, was green according to the pilot's memories...So green or red?

[Beardie]

That explains why I have seen a number of profiles and models giving it a green tail as well as those which give it blue. Maybe number 3 was actually the blue one? I doubt we will ever know for sure now.

[silver11]

Another question is the camouflage on the top wing... Does anyone has reference to how it might look in reality? The WindSock #40 is referring to WindSock Vol.6 No.6 p.28, however I wasn't able to find this issue. Anyone has any ideas? I would really appreciate.

 

Alex

[Garry c]

If the tail on No.4 is red, wouldn't the centers of the roundels be dark also?

 

Garry c

[silver11]

It is dark, isn't it?

[Garry c]

 On the post from Friday at 11:22 A.M., the large photo shows lighter colours on the upper wing vs. the tail. Two posts later the photo has a much darker upper wing. It looks to be the same photo, but the overall contrast is much higher.

Now I am just confused.

 

Garry c

[Beardie]

Well spotted I think it is indeed the same photograph only rotated by 90 degrees and the brightness has been brought up resulting in a greater loss of contrast in the areas where there is less white (cloud and snow) in the initial picture.

[silver11]

Yes it is the same picture. So I'm debating with myself how should I depict my number 3 green or blue... I'm leaning toward blue so far.

[Garry c]

The tail could be black. Why copy the other guys in the squadron?

I look forward to seeing your choice.

 

Garry c