The EDSG Files # 2: Fairey Barracuda 1/72

[TheBaron]

23 hours ago, CedB said:

But those flaps... yours, not Nigella or Charlie's... gorgeous Tony, just gorgeous. Great work that man.

 

23 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

This is just fantastic Tony, I've dreamed of a build like this, but never expected one in waking life.

 

23 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

The flap hinges look good.

 

22 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Excellent work on the flappy bits!

 

22 hours ago, rob85 said:

They are the best flaps I have ever seen....

 

7 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

Lovely detailing! With working main hinges you will be able to see some of it  from time to time 

 

Ced, Cookie, Martian, Ian, Rob, Adrian: Thanks gentleman all for your kind words. I have to say they were oddly satisfying to do - don't ask me why...

 

17 hours ago, keefr22 said:

And as to the landing lights, is it really worth trying to make your own when the lovely Marabu set is under 4 quid? Law of diminishing returns comes to mind...!

Nuff said Keith - the order went in for a Marabu set last night 

8 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Are you painting her folded or will you construct afterwards?

Hi Johnny. I'm going to paint the starboard wing components first, then assemble them all on the airframe at the end. At the moment only the folding trailing edge and Youngman flap are glued together, they're not glued onto the main wing yet (which itself won't be glued onto the fuselage until the end) - I doubt I'd be able to paint with the folded-over rear wing fixed on anyway. As it is there'll be some complex masking I suspect...

4 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I think I am right in saying that there was some sort of sticky-out bit (a technical term) on top of the wing to support the folded inner wing / flap when folded.  A simple angled rod sticking out if the top of the wing - the Barra had several of these!

Quite right Crisp - thanks for the reminder. The McCandless book is an absolute godsend for such details isn't it? There's a small retractable stub in nearer the wing-root as well as a hand-grip.

1 hour ago, Martian Hale said:

You are quite right Crisp. It was a rod reinforced by a triangular gusset. The rod engaged with the tail plane to provide some rigidity for the folded wing. The parts are so obvious on the Barra wing I would be very surprised indeed if Special Hobby have not included them in the kit in some form.

Martian, I think Crisp was referring to the angled post more  in the centre of the wing that supports the folded-over trailing-edge/flap structure ('A' in the sketch below), as opposed to the other rod on a triangular base - which I think this the one you mean -  outboard of this towards the wing-tip more ('B' in the sketch):

McCandless' book has an excellent shot of this view - I did the sketch above from it (to avoid breaking copyright). Special Hobby do indeed supply 'B' (the rod itself is a bit fat and needs replacing with some tube) though no 'A' , which will have to be scratched up from tube, as will the handgrip inboard.

 

I won't get to the bench today I'm afraid, due to work and being too knackered to concentrate this evening. I'm going to mull over the last few bits of detailing I need to finish-up around the wing fold, then have a think about lights. I must go through McCandless again tonight to see if there's anything specific on wing light colours? I presume the navigation lights were coloured r/g as per usual for port/starboard, but the formation lights? White? I've no idea. Digging around though I did find this interesting declassified US DOD report on the psychology of such lighting:

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/061751.pdf

 

Tony

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

2 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

You are quite right Crisp. It was a rod reinforced by a triangular gusset. The rod engaged with the tail plane to provide some rigidity for the folded wing. The parts are so obvious on the Barra wing I would be very surprised indeed if Special Hobby have not included them in the kit in some form.

 

Martian

 

Though you are quite right about the rod with reinforced gusset (are we back on Nigella again?), believe it or not there was another one as well.

 

 [This is another 744 NAS photo in my Dad's collection - it also appears in the outstanding Matthew Wills book recently published, so if I am on dodgy copyright grounds here, Mods please do the necessary].

 

 

Reinforced gusset seen on the right (as Martian says, the rod at the top married up with a fastener on the leading edge of the tail, locking the folded wing in place).  This was outboard of the flaps - as were the Yagi aerials of Mk.2 Barra ASV; this one is a Mk.3, with the later radar.  Inboard, aligned with the folded over section of the Youngman flap / inner wing combo, was the diagonal Johnson in the foreground, which (as far as I know) had no secondary purpose (i.e. it was only to hold the folded wing section in position and remove strain from the hinges).

 

Actually, once you know it's there, you can see this in the majority of Barra photos.

 

"Parasite drag" does not seem to have been a phrase that unduly bothered the Fairey design office at this stage...  [Maybe the FD2 was a fluke...]

 

Crisp

 

[Edit: simultaneous post with Tony]

Edited January 3, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Martian]

Sorry Guys I got muddled there!

 

Martian

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Muddled?  By a Barracuda wing fold?  You'll be telling us that it's complicated next!

[Martian]

1 minute ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Muddled?  By a Barracuda wing fold?  You'll be telling us that it's complicated next!

No, muddled by me not reading your post properly, a "Muddled Martian Moment" if you like!

 

Martian the Muddled (as usual)

[TheBaron]

1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Muddled?  By a Barracuda wing fold?  You'll be telling us that it's complicated next!

 

59 minutes ago, Martian Hale said:

No, muddled by me not reading your post properly, a "Muddled Martian Moment" if you like!

If it's any consolation Martian, you've no idea how frequently I've had to make myself stop and check I'm looking at the wing structures the right way up and right way round compared to reference photos. For something so apparently simple, the number of times I've held various folded pieces of it upside-down in relation to each other is truly galling...

 

Ps. The Barracuda is definitely something of a porcupine, I've just noticed handles on the pilot's canopy section as well as some kind of vent/light (?) in front of his/her face:

https://goo.gl/images/17c9zo

Notice also in the photo how the front of the canopy is faired, allowing the sliding section to sit home within it - another detail to ponder what to do about..

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

The "fairing" pieces of casopy were separate triangular pieces to reduce airflow when flying with the canopy open - which they always did when flying from a ship, to maximise chances of escape.

 

I cannot find online pics, but McCandless p. 56 you can see the fitments for the triangles, but they are not fitted.  The previous page you can see them very clearly.  A simple matter of pilot preference, I think.

[TheBaron]

10 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

A simple matter of pilot preference, I think.

Then I prefer not to think of it at this stage... 

[71chally]

I wish I could think of something intelligent to say, but simply superb and detailed work on the flap areas!

[moaning dolphin]

3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Actually, once you know it's there, you can see this in the majority of Barra photos.

 

Once you see it you can't unseen it! Might have to go back and modify mine, strange how no kits have picked up on it.

[Martian]

The extra strut will add some strength to that part of the fold.

 

Martian

[AdrianMF]

I think you have earned your evening off! The Barracuda keeps on giving when it comes to obscure detailing, doesn't it?

 

Regards,

Adrian

[TheBaron]

James, Bob, Martian, Adrian: Thanks for the comments lads. 

 

Apologies for the lack of progress. The last two and a half days have been pretty hellish here as one of our beloved moggies, Ginger,  went missing on Tuesday evening. She's a particularly strong bond with our youngest lad - who raised her from a kitten - so you can imagine the sense of loss. After searching the surrounding roads and fields and fearing the worst (foxes etc.), our youngest lad was getting fuel in from the store outside this afternoon and and Ginge started calling back in response to his calls - turned out she'd gotten herself locked in the loft of a neighbour's shed!

 

We're all pretty wrung out emotionally now tonight but I hope to have some progress in the next day or so...

 

Hope you're all doing ok yourselves.

 Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[Martian]

Glad you got your cat back, having been through the same thing in the past, I can totally appreciate what you have been going through.

 

Martian

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

Me too..been there dried the tears and then heard the faint calls from the neighbour's cellar.

Love the work on the Barracuda  and have learned a shedload of stuff from this thread.

Thanks

Richard

[keefr22]

Glad to hear about the moggy Tony. My sister in laws tabby Tom has been 'missing' since September when the useless fools that run the cattery that she entrusted his care too when they went on holiday let him escape. I've put missing in quotes as the only saving grace was the cattery is right opposite the farm owned by two friends who are ex neighbours of ours. I feverishly hoped he'd find his way there, which thankfully he did. So they've been feeding him ever since, but he's such a timid cat that they haven't been able to catch him. He apparently has also set up home in various hay filled barns they have on site as their daughter runs a livery yard there, so he also has plenty of warm, dry places to sleep! He's been getting ever closer to our friend as she's been feeding him so I live in hope that she'll be able to get hold of him soon...

 

I can't say what I really think of the cattery as it would get me an instant ban!

 

Keith

[Procopius]

On Monday, January 02, 2017 at 6:43 AM, TheBaron said:

 

You can make your own Tommy Walsh by getting hold of an inflatable Alec Baldwin doll and over-inflating it. 

 

 

Someone did this to the real Alec Baldwin as well, sadly. A long fall from his strapping Hunt for Red October days.

[The Spadgent]

No need to apologize. Glad Ginger is ok, that's the important thing. 

 

jont.

[Martian]

4 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Glad to hear about the moggy Tony. My sister in laws tabby Tom has been 'missing' since September when the useless fools that run the cattery that she entrusted his care too when they went on holiday let him escape. I've put missing in quotes as the only saving grace was the cattery is right opposite the farm owned by two friends who are ex neighbours of ours. I feverishly hoped he'd find his way there, which thankfully he did. So they've been feeding him ever since, but he's such a timid cat that they haven't been able to catch him. He apparently has also set up home in various hay filled barns they have on site as their daughter runs a livery yard there, so he also has plenty of warm, dry places to sleep! He's been getting ever closer to our friend as she's been feeding him so I live in hope that she'll be able to get hold of him soon...

 

I can't say what I really think of the cattery as it would get me an instant ban!

 

Keith

I would have thought you would have very good grounds for suing the cattery for negligence. I do hope you get your cat back, its absolutely gut wrenching when they are missing.

 

Martian

[TheBaron]

Martian, Richard, Keith, John: I appreciate your feline fellow-feeling. Thanks all.

 

10 hours ago, Procopius said:

Someone did this to the real Alec Baldwin as well, sadly. A long fall from his strapping Hunt for Red October days.

 PC.  Perhaps more Hunt for Red Enchilada Sauce nowadays.

 

I should talk the number of peanut brand comparisons I've carried out over the last fortnight. My waistline is not thickening, it is simply that it is now occupying the extra surrounding space caused by the expansion of the universe. 

 

Tony

[keefr22]

2 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

My waistline is not thickening, it is simply that it is now occupying the extra surrounding space caused by the expansion of the universe. 

 

 

  I'm stealing that one for when swmbo next has a pop at mine! 

 

K

[CedB]

40 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

peanut brand comparisons

 

Peanut butter? Or just peanuts? 

If it's peanut butter then, IMHO, you can't beat Sunpat.

I know, I know, but why are you eating it?

If it's for pleasure then this is the one. 

If it's for 'health' then the 'Mrs B approved' brand is 'Meridian', some sort of mud in a pot. A pot with plants on it. Ground up nuts with some oil on the top. Harder to mix than Humbrol acrylic from a ten year old pot. Horrid stuff.

 

My waistline is the result of many years effort and, in some tribes, a sign of wealth and wisdom. Six packs? Nah, barrels are much more efficient and 'an upgrade'  

[Brandy]

There's nothing wrong with having a profile similar to an inverted comma, as long as it's earned! And mine is fully paid for too!

Ian

 

[TheBaron]

On 1/6/2017 at 10:00 AM, keefr22 said:

 

  I'm stealing that one for when swmbo next has a pop at mine! 

Keith - remind her also that you are less likely to go over in a strong wind and are therefore an inherently safer model.

On 1/6/2017 at 10:46 AM, CedB said:

 

Peanut butter? Or just peanuts? 

If it's peanut butter then, IMHO, you can't beat Sunpat.

I know, I know, but why are you eating it?

If it's for pleasure then this is the one. 

If it's for 'health' then the 'Mrs B approved' brand is 'Meridian', some sort of mud in a pot. A pot with plants on it. Ground up nuts with some oil on the top. Harder to mix than Humbrol acrylic from a ten year old pot. Horrid stuff.

 

My waistline is the result of many years effort and, in some tribes, a sign of wealth and wisdom. Six packs? Nah, barrels are much more efficient and 'an upgrade'  

Peanuts only Ced. Peanut butter would just be fattening surely...

I can announce from the ongoing results of my Count Arthur Strong-like taste testing that Lidl's 'Alesto' range are currently favourite and go down very nicely with a 'drop of splosh'.

 

Mrs. B's Meridian brand frankly sounds like she is having a laugh at your expense Ced and that she's simply whacked some mud pack into a jar to see if you'd eat it. No doubt she is over on the sister forum to this one (Britmodeller's Wives) regaling forum members there with tales of culinary deceit in the 'You'll never guess what my husband ate!' thread...

15 hours ago, limeypilot said:

There's nothing wrong with having a profile similar to an inverted comma, as long as it's earned! And mine is fully paid for too!

Wear it with pride brother!

 

___________________________________

Agatha Christie's Poirot in: Sparkling Plastic

___________________________________

'What is zis zey are offering us Hastings?', muttered the small and rather odd-looking man in the corner of the restaurant to his companion, frowning as he looked inside the jar of Meridian brand peanut butter that lay on the table before him. His taller companion craned his head forward, looking into the jar of unctious confection. 'I think that it is some kind of paste Poirot, possibly intended for modelling purposes.' he murmured drily. 'Oh, but mon ami - surely you jest? This, this manure which Mme Ced has presented us with for supper cannot surely be food! It must be one of your English jokes, n'est-ce pas?'

 

I can't actually keep this up as all I can hear in my head now is Kenny Everett's Marcel:

 

Let's go to the bench and leave zese continental clowns alone.

 

Although I haven't got to the bench in the last few days, I did some futher research and note-taking from reference photos, resulting in a list of items that will probably get overlooked unless I write them down:

I haven't seen the new Mushroom volume on the Barra myself yet - but I have to say that if you are building one of these in whatever scale, I can't remcomend McCandless' book highly enough as a companion to such work - the range of photos and detail are simply not available on the web. It is however eye-wateringly expensive unless you can track down a bargain somewhere. I'm grateful to Crisp for drawing it to my attention.

 

Having finished with the trailing-edge fold Youngman structure, it was back to the main fold for a final detailing pass, starting with adding a more defined 'lip' to the profile:

Fiddly, but optically much improved. If you've evertried gluing plastic strip around curved outlines like the leading edge shown here, then you'll probably already know to run the plastic over the back of of a scalpel, or a cocktail stick, to get it to curl without having to stick it in boiling water. Same attention to the outer wing:

Suddenly I'm starting so see unified structures rather than assemblages...

 

Also from the list, I'm now committed to adding naviagation and formation lights as well as the landing light:

These are, as you can see from the drawing, not right-angled structural elements but obtuse triangles in shape. I've never done the clear sprue, drill and colour method, so another first on this build for me. Another detail to do before I forget is the flare chute at the rear underside of the TAG's cockpit:

You can also just make out the tail-weight I stuck inside the fuselage to compensate for the metal engine. I'd forgotten it was there TBH!

 

Finally, back to the outer wing and the addition of final bracing and surface detail:

I've stuck a little Tamiya tape (with most of the adhesion removed) onto the 90 gal. tank in the wing to stop it getting covered with interior green later. If you're familiar with the detail of this area you will have immediately spotted that the hinge occupies the region where there is another triangular brace on the real thing in front of the wing tanks. I've had to sacrifice authenticity for functionality in this respect. You can have on or t'other, but not both I'm afraid.

 

Short of final fixing to the fuselage at the end (and maybe adding the electrical connections in from varying thicknesses of wire), that is the wing-fold detailing now structurally complete, bar a tidy-up before paint goes on.

 

Finally today, I've been pondering the canopies again:

 

What has been particularly exercising the neurons of late has been the manner in which the actual structure(s) might be achievable in an open position. Here's a sketch of the problem:

The upper drawing shows the three fixed canopy elements, the lower on shows how the respective sliding sections are accommodated by the fixed elements. The pilot's canopy simply slides back over the section behind it, whereas both the and TAG's observer's segments tilt up and slide back down into their respective sections (something that was quite problematic for the TAG on the real aircraft particularly...)

 

You can hopefully get the idea that this would then require that the pilots sliding section be internally wider than the fixed section it slides back over, whereas the other two sliding sections need to be externally narrower than the sections they slide into. You can see the profile differences along the top of  the canopy in this shot:

If we then compare the real version to both sets of model canopies I've got at my disposal, Falcon ClearVax on top, SH kit one on the bottom:

...to my eyes the SH one looks lightly narrower and thicker than the slightly wider (and thinner)Falcon one. This leads me to wonder if  it might be possible to partially solve the above problem by mixing and matching parts from the two canopies eg. use the winder Falcon sliding section for the pilot, narrower SH one for TAG? (Though the observer is more problematic due to the combinations of sections). It does of course entail double the work of anxiously-careful cutting-up two canopies however...Thoughts anyone?

 

Tony

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Be careful? 

 

 

Awesome work Tony, just been catching up.....I've looked at builds of these things a few times over the years (I have one in the stash as I said earlier) and this has to be the most detailed and intricate that I've seen at this scale, I'm staggered TBH!