perdu Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Ouch, sadly it looks as if Dave is right because those are the exhaust ports on the engine casting I'm going to go very far away acos I feel I ought to have looked at it proper like. Won't take long to sort it though Tony, in all this is a brilliant model 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: Just catching up with this, and I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you on this. Your observations are spot-on Dave but a little late in the day I'm afraid. If you have a look back through the thread at the pertinent sections on building the cantilever and for the engine, you'll see that due to the thickness of the fuselage moulding itself in the engine spaces, that it was almost impossibly tight trying to squeeze in both engine and scratched cantilevers - neither of which the model was originally designed to hold. At one point I considered abandoning the undertaking altogether, such was the conundrum and effort required. The exhaust mountings are scraped down to paper thin in cross-section as it is (in fact they've ripped like paper on several occasions and needed patching). just to get the engine in as you see here, hence the displacement you point out. Without the fuselage closed up, you can see a neat alignment is absolutely possible, there's a the shot in this post from back in November: However with the aircraft closed up later in the build it became painfully apparent that the wider top of the engine begins to push the exhaust mouldings out so far towards the front that they cease to align align with the diameter and contour of the nose fairing where they meet. It's unfortunately a decision I've had to take to live with a neater nose and a dodgy shaft alignment...but then that's the story of my life! Kudos to you referring to this quixotic aircraft as beautiful. Salutations! Tony 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, perdu said: Won't take long to sort it though Tony, in all this is a brilliant model Ah Bill, what can I say? Though Dave is bang-on in visual terms, structurally the final engine position you see here is dictated solely by the available horizontal space between the plastic of those exhaust channels on the fuselage, if they are to meet the nose fairing accurately at the front in terms of its particular diameter. Even if I were to pull out the cantilevers and drop the engine somehow, the width of the engine at the height of the exhaust stubs would simply push those exhaust channels outward further so that they wouldn't meet the nose any more. Catch-22. Check out where those channels meet the nose in relation to engine clearance in this photo and you can see what I mean: The truth is this (excellent) kit wasn't manufactured (understandably) to have berks like me sticking engines and cantilevers inside in the first place, and I've reached the limits of my ability to correct this mismatch between engine width and internal exhaust channel width. Better modellers than I will have to rise to the challenge of building more of the engine bay from scratch next time. Just don't tell Maureen - she'll hopefully not notice from where she's sitting or I'll be on short rations... Tony Edited March 3, 2017 by TheBaron Reference image added 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Right! That's it! I'm not watching anymore.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, 71chally said: Right! That's it! I'm not watching anymore.... Me neither! Bill, you take over. Sing The Sky Boat Song for us to cover... I have mulled this issue over coffee and a Double-Decker just now and there is I believe a solution. If you want to stick an engine of this width into 'that bay', just completely cut-off everything forwards of the firewall and scratch build the required intervening structure yourself. That is neither as daft nor as as it impracticable as it sounds. On reflection a lot of my time and effort up that end has simply stemmed from having to shoehorn an engine into a space too small for it towards the nose, whereas if you build your own structure from thinner materials (brass sheet for strength?) to conform to the engine, this should perhaps yield greater accuracy. Tony 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Double Decker?? It's Friday; if it was still available a Double Diamond would be far more appropriate. I wonder if anyone will actually have a go at putting more detail into this kit than you have Tony? It has been a very brave undertaking, more so when one bears in mind that this is a very recent release. It could have been a real nightmare. Conversely it looks like this kit is an absolute winner from Special Hobby and has been very amenable to all this super-duper detailing, hinge fabrication, canopy fettling and so on. I can see what you mean about fabricating everything fore if the firewall. The metal skin to scale would really have to be a quite fine paper thickness. Our chosen scales and the materials available to us, to this scale, pose big structure/strength challenges. Very well done on the fettling the engine in given these issues, it looks grand. Mo doesn't mind. All she can see is the back of the prop and she's a good enough pilot to adjust the trîm . All the best TonyT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, TonyTiger66 said: It's Friday; if it was still available a Double Diamond would be far more appropriate. Oooh. I'd go one of them reet now Tony. That and some Salt n' Shake crisps... 1 hour ago, TonyTiger66 said: I can see what you mean about fabricating everything fore if the firewall. Had I my time again on this that is exactly what I would do TT. No more than wasting ages on the Sea Venom build previously trying to get things to conform to the Airwaves etch, here I wasted a lot of time trying to get the moulding to conform to the engine. Experience - that most hard-won of fruits - has taught me here that when in doubt, whip the kit moulding off and build your own. It's the more direct route in the end and probably painful to watch me stumble to this conclusion. Still, faint heart never won Kate Bush, or however that one goes... None of this is a reflection in any way on Special Hobby: I've just tried to cram more in than the dimensions of this fine kit were able for. One of the benefits of living over an hours' drive from work is the time to reflect upon things and problem-solve. I refuse to be buggering-well beaten by some errant plastic so on arriving home, there was, I regret to say an episode of brutal violence committed. On today's episode of Jeremy Kyle: 'I abused my Barracuda in public and now Maureen won't speak to me!' Snap go the exhausts as they and their channels are ripped off with pliers. Snock goes the nose fairing as it's dug off with a scalpel and tweezers. Snurk as the radiators are pulled off. File file file on the exhaust channels until paper-thin becomes molecular. Insert (invisible) wedge between firewall and engine to push engine/cantilever arrangement forward and downwards, almost - whimper whimper - shattering the cantilevers asunder. Hurriedly CA everything into new lower orientation before bits start pinging off faster than a member of Trump's administration being appointed and resigning. The result: Acceptably imperfect under the circumstances and duress which that structure has now been placed under. That done, the nose fairing too has also had some drastic surgery with the Dremel: Any part region of the insidethat even remotely looked like it was going to present an issue has been ground out, so much so that at the top where the upper parts of the engine make contact, the engine can now tuck under. This at the penalty of makingnthe faring too now molecule-thick in cross-section at the top. In parts it's now got to be almost a 1/72 scale thickness! Gah! Short brutal and nasty - like one of my espressos - but effectively better than it was. Here's hoping nothing pings off in the night... Tony 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Jaw drop emoji (sorry, I'm not good with emoticons). This 1/72 conundrum seems especially pronounced with radial engines, where the diameter is too small, or it won't fit in the cowling. Or you're the Baron and somehow manage both. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Some drastic surgery there Tony, and I was reading and scrolling down with some trepidation as I feared my comments may have lead to the destruction of your Barracuda, but looking at that last photo it looks like you've absolutely nailed it! Well done sir. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I scrolled down with much trepidation..... Read very scary phrases... Then saw that all was good. Well done that man !! Mrs. T has bought me the blu-ray of 633 Squadron for my birthday (Sunday). I thought that would be my excitement and thrills for the weekend. As it is, I seem to have peaked early after Snap, Snock and Snurk!!! It looks great TonyT PS: So it's you that Kate Bush married then is it? She never did tell me who she left me for, and I was left having to pay for her chips and curry sauce (and she had a tray too)! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, TheBaron said: One of the benefits of living over an hours' drive from work is the time to reflect upon things and problem-solve. Snap go the exhausts as they and their channels are ripped off with pliers. Snock goes the nose fairing as it's dug off with a scalpel and tweezers. Snurk as the radiators are pulled off. Did you have time to kiss the wife on the way to the desk! I would have considered your first pass as perfectly acceptable, but that sir is a recovery up there with what some test-pilots of the past might have considered as 'just got a way with'! Superb. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I'm kinda sorry to have entertained thoughts of Barracudafudge here Tony Not only fixed though, fixed magnificently and you have absolutely nailed it now Please take a modicum of praise from me, nah not a modicum take a massive paean of applause 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Cookenbacher said: Jaw drop emoji (sorry, I'm not good with emoticons). This 1/72 conundrum seems especially pronounced with radial engines, where the diameter is too small, or it won't fit in the cowling. Or you're the Baron and somehow manage both. Cheers Cookie! You should see what I can pull a rabbit out of! Seriously, without the level of encouragement you guys give me here I wouldn't be able for this kind of stuff at all. 39 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: Some drastic surgery there Tony, and I was reading and scrolling down with some trepidation as I feared my comments may have lead to the destruction of your Barracuda, but looking at that last photo it looks like you've absolutely nailed it! Well done sir. I appreciate those kind words Dave - my thanks to you! And thanks also for providing the impetus for me to make this at least less imperfect than it was. That's one of the great things I love about this forum. 21 minutes ago, TonyTiger66 said: I scrolled down with much trepidation..... Read very scary phrases... Then saw that all was good. Well done that man !! Mrs. T has bought me the blu-ray of 633 Squadron for my birthday (Sunday). I thought that would be my excitement and thrills for the weekend. As it is, I seem to have peaked early after Snap, Snock and Snurk!!! It looks great TonyT PS: So it's you that Kate Bush married then is it? She never did tell me who she left me for, and I was left having to pay for her chips and curry sauce (and she had a tray too)! Sorry for the scare TT. It had to be done. 633 Squadron on Bluray? Tasty... Back in the 90s I worked for a recording studio for a few years doing live sound in N.Ireland. One gig we had to do was the sound for Ron Goodwin conducting his film music in the Ulster Hall with yours truly on the sound desk. To be running levels for a full orchestra belting out The Battle of Britain and Where Eagles Dare was stirring enough, but by the time they got round to 633 Squadron it was grown men weeping openly in their seats stuff. Sorry for stealing Kate after you'd lashed out on that curried chip for her. If it's any consolation, Britney gave me the elbow not long after I'd sprung for a kebab with extra garlic sauce, so I guess we're evens... Enjoy the movie Tigerman! 26 minutes ago, 71chally said: Did you have time to kiss the wife on the way to the desk! I would have considered your first pass as perfectly acceptable, but that sir is a recovery up there with what some test-pilots of the past might have considered as 'just got a way with'! Superb. If it all stays on the night without anything shifting, I'll consider it fixed. Kind words James. Thank you. 12 minutes ago, perdu said: I'm kinda sorry to have entertained thoughts of Barracudafudge here Tony Not only fixed though, fixed magnificently and you have absolutely nailed it now Please take a modicum of praise from me, nah not a modicum take a massive paean of applause I thank you for that Bill. To have met with the approval of the landlord of the Wasp's Nest is satisfaction enough for this modeller. Barracudafudge? I wonder what that would taste like? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMP man Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Just a walk in the park Kanasky! Major Lieutenant Colonel brilliant save there. Box on Strickers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 My admiration for your building skills is now, er, admiration! If not bigger. My admiration for you as a very brave man who's not afraid to undo the hard work of many, many weeks and redo things is even bigger - i would have blagged my way out of it, probably. Great stuff Tony - you deserve a title for that. Oh no, wait, Baron... got it. A great model just got greater. Good job Sir. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Like some Tom Baker Dr Who episode, I feel I cant watch anymore, or at best at a distance from behind the brushed draylon sofa. This thread has taken me through every emotion that my mind can experience, at once one punches the air with delight, while simultaneously feeling as if someone has spilled my pint. Physically I have been rendered an empty husk, a host for some distant, crazed, modeller. Now I'm on such a high I'm humming the last few moments of Pachelbel's Canon, the D major version. I'm back in! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Now it looks beautiful! Way to go with the last minute surgery. You didn't even mess up your paint scheme... Respect, Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) Bud, what can I say? If I know one thing about BM it's the constant Devil on your shoulder whispering sweet suggestions about how to tweak things to make them just right. Should we listen? If No, Then we will dwell on it for ever more. If Yes we might fluff it. You however stood up the challenge and totally nailed it. Bravo to your resolve and absolutely stunning dedication to this most epic of builds. I am in awe. Great Stuff El Baron. Jont. ps. Engine looks pretty awesome. X Edited March 4, 2017 by The Spadgent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Wow, that save is up there (almost) with Gordon Banks' save from Pele in the1970 World Cup! She looked good before, but now it just looks so much better..the lines look better, the exhausts look like they are where they should be, no vacant exhaust ports on the engine.....stunning save so late in the game! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Flippin' 'eck you don't mess around do you Tony. I would never have noticed the misalignment in the exhausts had Dave not pointed it out. But as soon as he did, I guessed the perfectionist in you wouldn't be able to live with it. So was not at all surprised with that magnificent re-alignment that has taken place - top work again! And my broken heart still hasn't mended after never receiving a reply from any of the 53 marriage proposals I sent to the blessed Kate back in 1979. First class stamps weren't cheap even back then.... Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 21 hours ago, 71chally said: Like some Tom Baker Dr Who episode, I feel I cant watch anymore, or at best at a distance from behind the brushed draylon sofa. This thread has taken me through every emotion that my mind can experience, at once one punches the air with delight, while simultaneously feeling as if someone has spilled my pint. Physically I have been rendered an empty husk, a host for some distant, crazed, modeller. Now I'm on such a high I'm humming the last few moments of Pachelbel's Canon, the D major version. Hum away old fruit, we could do with some soothing chords after the recent pandemonium! Hmmm. that's more like a skiffle group...care to join me in a few bars of Rock Island Line? 21 hours ago, AdrianMF said: Now it looks beautiful! Way to go with the last minute surgery. You didn't even mess up your paint scheme... That'll be a first for me then....thanks Adrian! 20 hours ago, The Spadgent said: Bud, what can I say? If I know one thing about BM it's the constant Devil on your shoulder whispering sweet suggestions about how to tweak things to make them just right. Should we listen? If No, Then we will dwell on it for ever more. If Yes we might fluff it. You however stood up the challenge and totally nailed it. Bravo to your resolve and absolutely stunning dedication to this most epic of builds. I am in awe. Great Stuff El Baron. Cheers Johnny! I was in town earlier and pleased to see they've named a lamp post after me now: Presumably on account of what dogs do on them... 19 hours ago, limeypilot said: Wow, that save is up there (almost) with Gordon Banks' save from Pele in the1970 World Cup! She looked good before, but now it just looks so much better..the lines look better, the exhausts look like they are where they should be, no vacant exhaust ports on the engine.....stunning save so late in the game! Merci Ian. I just know that every time I looked at the model I'd regret not doing something to those exhausts. It's a pity I had to resort to brute force and ignorance; it's a terrible example to the younger generation... 19 hours ago, keefr22 said: Flippin' 'eck you don't mess around do you Tony. I would never have noticed the misalignment in the exhausts had Dave not pointed it out. But as soon as he did, I guessed the perfectionist in you wouldn't be able to live with it. So was not at all surprised with that magnificent re-alignment that has taken place - top work again! And my broken heart still hasn't mended after never receiving a reply from any of the 53 marriage proposals I sent to the blessed Kate back in 1979. First class stamps weren't cheap even back then.... Gracias Don Keith of the Welsh Sierras. 1979? Those letters probably didn't reach her until about 1985 then....I expect they're now in a police file somewhere along with the drawings in crayon I sent here... No dramas tonight. I had to spend the day in town seeing to various purchases and related tasks so just a modest couple of shots this evening: 1. As somebody put it many pages ago: 'the bits that once seen you can't un-see' i.e., the stubs to support the trailing edge wingfolds and the flip-up hand-hold for the pilot on the port wing root: Wheels and arrestor hook on as well and setting for the night. I had to use CA as those legs are a rather unstable configuration to try and glue with anything that takes a length of time to go off: Yes, I have glued the tail-wheel on sideways and yes I have a photo to prove it was sometimes done when parked. I'll stick all the pointy bits on the upper surfaces tomorrow and post some shots then. Have a nice evening all of you. Tony 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Don't make me post stuff I'm drunk. Oh what ? Eh? Great stuff kid. Yoush my besht mate. Xxx 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJP Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Awesome work! - cant wait to see it on RFI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Looking marvellous Tony. Is that black Lego? Kinky! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Black Lego huh How do you like yer lego? Matt or shiny? I got both kindsa black I do like a twisted tailwheel, stops em rolling off the shelf. She, sans Mighty Mo, is looking amazing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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