ReccePhreak Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I am building a BAe Hawk of the Finnish AF, using the Tamiya 1/48 Hawk Mk.66 "Swiss Air Force" kit (89784). The kit ejection seats don't look TOO bad, other than no seatbelts, but I am wondering which of the following aftermarket ejection seats would be the most accurate: Pavla Models PAVS48020 - Martin-Baker Mk.10A Pavla Models PAVS48027 - Martin-Baker Mk.10H I already have the VICON recce pod and the Russian missiles that the plane will be carrying. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsepajev Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 The seats have Finnish seat belts that are different from British ones. Here are some FiAF Hawks from Turku Airshow 2015. https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7ljcnf4jetxamw/untitled album - 08.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/lwmb2e0mrqha9nq/untitled album - 09.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6r1eer6msy8jd3/untitled album - 11.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/szpglvraavlyil1/untitled album - 10.jpg?dl=0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 The Mk.10A is the variant used on the Tornado, the Hawk is equipped with the Mk.10B. The Mk.60 based export variants use the Mk.10LH. Of the two Pavla seats, IMHO the 10H is the one that looks more similar to the one fitted to the Hawk T.1. I don't know however which variant is used on the Finnish machines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, tsepajev said: The seats have Finnish seat belts that are different from British ones. Here are some FiAF Hawks from Turku Airshow 2015. https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7ljcnf4jetxamw/untitled album - 08.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/lwmb2e0mrqha9nq/untitled album - 09.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6r1eer6msy8jd3/untitled album - 11.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/szpglvraavlyil1/untitled album - 10.jpg?dl=0 Thank you for those great pictures. The top of the seat belts is visible, so I can try to figure out my next move. They also help me with details I will need to change or add to my model. I wish somebody did a walkaround of a Finnish AF Hawk. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Hi there There is one simple question regarding the Finish AF Bae Hawks??? and that's what color are they??? Best day Armando PS I notice extra wing pylons!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 17 hours ago, RAGATIGER said: Hi there There is one simple question regarding the Finish AF Bae Hawks??? and that's what color are they??? Best day Armando PS I notice extra wing pylons!!! The Galdecal instructions for the Finnish AF BAe Hawk I am building lists the top color as Dark Sea Grey and the bottom color as Light Aircraft Grey. I have a photo of an earlier camouflaged ed Finnish AF BAe Hawk, that was also carrying the VICON recce pod, but I don't have the decals for that plane. Also, all the recce Hawks I have seen only had the 2 inboard pylons. I have only seen those new outboard pylons used to carry smoke generators, for airshows. Now if I can come up with a photo of a recce Hawk with 4 pylons, then I could outfit mine with recce pod, drop tanks and 2 R-60 missiles. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonywood Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 The other colour scheme option is the ex Swiss red / white / grey training scheme that I believe the Mk.66's still carry. I have seen photos of a Mk.66 with missile launch rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, tonywood said: The other colour scheme option is the ex Swiss red / white / grey training scheme that I believe the Mk.66's still carry. I have seen photos of a Mk.66 with missile launch rails. I have never seen A Finnish AF Hawk in that scheme. i will be doing mine in the following scheme. I can't really tell if the pylons with the R-60 rails are inner or outer, so unless someone can come up with a clearer photo of a Finnish AF Hawk carrying a centerline Vinten recce pod and 4 wing pylons (with R-60s on the outboard pylons), then I will only have 2 wing pylons on my model. A pretty thorough internet search failed to turn up such a photo. Larry Edited October 19, 2016 by ReccePhreak More info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kari Lumppio Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Hello! For what it is worth Last week was held the largest peace time excercises for Finnish Air Force - "Ruska 2016". I was not with the Hawks, but there is nice YouTube video of Hawk being refuelled. Taken during the excercise. The video includes HW-374 in Swiss type red/white colours, but with grey fin! News to me, too. Hawks did have (seemingly) captive Sidewinders on left pylons. The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SNQDvYvwzQ Just to show that FinnAF Hawk can be/have been "green", "grey" "red&white" or even mix of them. Though I think "green" parts are no more. Nor has there been "green" parts during the time the redwhites (ex Swiss Mk 66) have been in use. One needs period photos if colour accuracy is goal for FinnAF Hawk model. Cheers, Kari Edited October 18, 2016 by Kari Lumppio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonywood Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 If you google Hawk T.Mk66 Finland there are plenty of photo's of Finnish ones in the red white. This scheme only applies to the relatively recently acquired es Swiss ones. https://www.planespotters.net/photo/477239/hw-363-air-force-finland-british-aerospace-hawk-mk66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Colours for the two tone Green scheme are BS381C 222 Light Bronze Green BS381C 337 Dark Olive Drab BS381C 627 Light Aircraft Grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hello Larry! I have "many" close up photos of a Finnish Hawk (landing gear+bays, engine bay, electronics bay, cockpits...) and more "interesting" stuff. What do you need? You mentioned that Galdecal gives the colours as Dark Sea Grey and Light Aircraft Grey. Actually the colour for the underside is Medium Sea Grey. BR, Antti 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 On 18/10/2016 at 0:08 PM, ReccePhreak said: I have never seen A Finnish AF Hawk in that scheme. i will be doing mine in the following scheme. I can't really tell if the pylons with the R-60 rails are inner or outer, This photo shows both inner and outer pylons. There is a rail on the outer pylon and the tail of the inner pylon can be seen as a flat line below the curved third flap fairing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 34 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: This photo shows both inner and outer pylons. There is a rail on the outer pylon and the tail of the inner pylon can be seen as a flat line below the curved third flap fairing. Thanks for the input, now I have to scratch build the outer pylons, since the kit did not come with them. The rail is the R-60 launch rail, which I appropriated from my Eduard MiG-21 kit. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Antti_K said: Hello Larry! I have "many" close up photos of a Finnish Hawk (landing gear+bays, engine bay, electronics bay, cockpits...) and more "interesting" stuff. What do you need? You mentioned that Galdecal gives the colours as Dark Sea Grey and Light Aircraft Grey. Actually the colour for the underside is Medium Sea Grey. BR, Antti Hi Antii, Thanks for the post. I will have to annotate the decal instructions. Good thing I haven't gotten to the painting stage. If you have any clear pics of R-60s attached to their pylons, the shape & build of the outer pylon (so I can scratch build 2), the Vinten recce pod, and cockpit details (including ejection seats & belts), that would be fantastic. Anything to correct & modify my kit. You can send them to me at lengesath(AT)cox(DOT)net. Cheers, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Not sure if this is completely in topic, however I've noticed that all of today's Finnish Hawks seem to have the extra 3 fences on the wing typical of the Mk.60 series aircrafts. Now the former Swiss aircrafts had them from the start so no problem here. The Mk.51A may have had them as I remember that this subvariant had some features from the Mk.60 wing The original Mk.51 however did not have these fences, were these retrofitted at some point ? Or did Finland modify all their Hawks with the newwer Mk.60 wing at some point ? From a modelling point of view this is quite a noticeable difference and no 1/72 kit shows these fences apart from the Italeri Mk.100 kit. In 1/48 I believe that the recent Hobbyboss kit is the only one with the fences (that however should not be on the RAF T.1) Edited October 19, 2016 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Giorgio N said: Not sure if this is completely in topic, however I've noticed that all of today's Finnish Hawks seem to have the extra 3 fences on the wing typical of the Mk.60 series aircrafts. Now the former Swiss aircrafts had them from the start so no problem here. The Mk.51A may have had them as I remember that this subvariant had some features from the Mk.60 wing The original Mk.51 however did not have these fences, were these retrofitted at some point ? Or did Finland modify all their Hawks with the newwer Mk.60 wing at some point ? From a modelling point of view this is quite a noticeable difference and no 1/72 kit shows these fences apart from the Italeri Mk.100 kit. In 1/48 I believe that the recent Hobbyboss kit is the only one with the fences (that however should not be on the RAF T.1) Giorgio, It is in topic, thank you for the info. Fortunately, it appears that the aircraft I plan to model only has one fence on each wing, based on the photo I posted. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hello Larry and Giorgio! IIRC from HW-301 to HW-350 had the "original" wing with one fence and leading edge strakes. From HW-351 and onward there is three "extra" fences. HW-344 was the first Finnish Hawk carrying this two grey camouflage. It was painted in August 1990 and your photo was taken by a well known Finnish test pilot Lt Col Jyrki Laukkanen in August 1996. It seems that HW-344 was carrying the small Vicon pod; there was also a large one. They were called "Säiliö 301" (literally: Tank 301) and "Säiliö 303". Which was the large one I can't remember. Normally wing pylons were not carried during High Oblique Photography missions because they got in the way. During early days you had to set the Weapon Control Panel" (in the rear cockpit, operated by the navigator) to "ALL". That means when you press the trigger everything goes... BR, Antti 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kari Lumppio Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Hello! FinnAF Hawk wings. Mk 51 (HW-301-350) did have the triangular stall strip on leading edge. Mk 51A (HW-351-357) did/do have the three small wing fences - "new wing" Mk 66 (HW-360-377) do have the three small wiing fences - "new wing" A handful of old Mk 51 have been rewinged and the new wing has three small fences. I think these were all repairs after accidents, not planned upgrades as such. Fin, rudder, horizontal tails and fuselage have separate maintenance cycles and few years back it was common to see green Hawks with grey pieces and grey Hawks with green pieces. And now red/white Hawk with grey fin. I don't remember ever seeing wing and fuselage with different colours, though. Of the old FinnAF Hawks HW-346 and -347 were painted with Sikkens paints and the greens differed clearly from the "normal" ones (see "normal colour" BS codes in post by user scotthldr above). Later, when the camouflage pattern and markings were made to more low-visible, as result of overpainting with normal shades the two Hawks had sort of four colour upper camouflage. IIRC one of them received grey fin or something as a cherry to the cake, too. Today all flying FinnAF Hawk are with glass cockpits (Mk 51As and Mk 66s and one Mk 51 prototype). Updated by Patria in Finland. Seven old Mk 51 will be (or are already?) upgraded, too, though this was not originally planned. These are to make up the flying hous lost in the collision of two Mk 66s in 2013. Cheers, Kari 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Thanks Antti and Kari ! This makes perfect sense, I was expecting the Mk.51A to have the Mk.60 wing with the 3 additional fences and had no doubt about the Mk.66. It was when I saw aircrafts that were supposed to be Mk.51 with the 3 fences that I started wondering. I must have stepped into pictures of these modified machines. Good to know that the Hawk is still being upgraded, I'll have to build a Finnish Hawk at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 Thanks Antti & Kari, for the great info. All that really helps, in trying to nail down all the little details I will need on my model. Larry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Hello guys, excellent info Kari! Thank you for sharing. Was is it this aircraft with grey fin? I took the photo at Tikkakoski AB (EFJY) on May 15th, 2008. Note also smaller grey areas like canopy frame, wing leading edge, intake lips and ring around landing light. BR, Antti 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 According to the Avalon decal sheet for Finnish Hawks, there was a Green camo jet flying with Grey wings, how accurate the info is I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 It's always a possibility with aircraft fleets undergoing colour changes. There is always the chance of seeing interesting combinations. Speaking of which, red/white Hawk with grey fin and AIM-9s... Now that I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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