Procopius Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) " Сами не летаем – другим не дадим." ["Don't fly – don't let anyone else."] -- Unofficial motto of the Войска ПВО СССР, Soviet Voyska-PVO -- the branch of the armed forces which operated interceptors and SAMs for home defense. "The Soviet estimate of their own effectiveness against high altitude penetrators must have been high... planning factors for the probability-of-kill of SA-2s (given launch inside engagement parameters) were 0.8. Similarly, the handbook probability-of-kill of the air-to-air missiles on Victor Belenko's MiG-25 was 0.86. These are end-game probabilities of kill in Western analytic jargon. If the PVO command and control system could enforce at least two end-game engagements for each penetrator, the bomber attrition would have been estimated as above 0.95." -- "SOVIET STRATEGIC AIR DEFENSE: A LONG PAST AND AN UNCERTAIN FUTURE", James T. Quinlivan, RAND Corporation, September 1989 "The other attack option available to pilots was ramming- -a much celebrated tactic used in the Great Patriotic War and even in modern conditions. "Given the high value of a nuclear -armed strategic bomber this tactic presents a good trade-off and has been explicitly endorsed in the VPVOS press, but ramming requires flying skill at least as great as that for gun attacks and would be unlikely to greatly increase VPVOS effectiveness. "The conclusion of most Western analysts is that the VPVOS did not present a very effective defense against low altitude penetration during the 1960s and 1970s." -- John William Rix Lepingwell, Organizational and bureaucratic politics in Soviet defense decisionmaking: a case study of the Soviet air defense forces, MIT PhD Thesis, c.1988 I was going to do a joint Spitfire build with Cookie after I finished the Hunter, but we're both a bit worn down at the moment, and I wanted to wait until happier times to build my favourite aeroplane. The Yak-28P is probably one of the less well-known Soviet aircraft of the Cold War. It was never exported, never served overseas (unlike the Su-15 -- which used the same radar and missiles -- a few of which were apparently briefly stationed in Egypt during the War of Attrition), and labored more or less in obscurity as part of the PVO (in the USSR, the air defence command was an entirely seperate and independent service from the VVS, the tactical air force) covering lower-priority sectors of the vast Soviet Union against the possibility of NATO intruders. It was phased out around the same time as I was born in 1983, which seems more recent than it actually is. I probably wouldn't know anything about it if there wasn't a two-page full-colour spread of it and the paltry selection of stores it could carry in Bill Gunston's Modern Warplanes book, which I must have first seen in 1988 or 1989. I thought it looked incredibly unlike any NATO plane (my favourite at the time, by the way, was the hapless Tornado F.2), and spectacularly Russian. Of course, now I know it's a rather old-timey-looking design for the late 1950s from whence it sprang (it and the F-4 Phantom are contemporaries), but despite its vague resemblance to an Me 262, there's just a bit of muchness to it: the nose is too long, the wings too swept, the whole thing too pointy. I dig it. When I got back into modelling in 2011, I happened upon a secondhand kit of it in a local hobby shop and bought it immediately, only to discover it lacked a radome, which pyro-maniac kindly sent me. I then read that it was a bit of a tough build and left it at that, until now. [fanfare] 20161006_214424 by Edward IX, on Flickr 20161006_214430 by Edward IX, on Flickr Hmmm, "prefer quality". Well, I like to think I do. I like my models like I like my women, beautiful surface detail, expensive, and locked up safely in the basement. And look, only three steps, basically, and then it's all together! 20161006_214418 by Edward IX, on Flickr Sprues don't look too bad. Low parts count is good. 20161006_214442 by Edward IX, on Flickr what the butt 20161006_214457 by Edward IX, on Flickr This should be a hole. 20161006_215101 by Edward IX, on Flickr "Intriguing" fit. 20161006_215818 by Edward IX, on Flickr I've started the cockpit tub: 20161006_225434 by Edward IX, on Flickr From what I know of Sovjets, they didn't start getting their delightfully hideous vomit green cockpit interiors until the late 1960s, so this aircraft should have a restrained light grey with black instrumentation. A three-part nosewheel bay, which I then have to capture between the fuselage halves! Oh, Amodel, you spoil me. 20161006_225430 by Edward IX, on Flickr Edited October 9, 2016 by Procopius Corrected translation 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Procopius said: Hmmm, "prefer quality". Well, I like to think I do. I like my models like I like my women, beautiful surface detail, expensive, and locked up safely in the basement. Yes! Let's all prefer quality! Well done Edward, you made me laugh before half-past six in the morning, an occurrence so unusual that the dog is now observing me carefully and, it must be said, suspiciously. I'm in - let's go Cheers, Stew 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 You'll be fine young man. Get in there an do eet! I envy you the task you face - the fitting and fettling is my very bestest favourite part of mogelling. Those 50s Soviet aircraft were amazing to look at, Buck Rogers with a red star. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christer A Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Short-run kit, from an earlier period in Amodels life, of a bonkers looking russian plane. What could possible go wrong? Good luck and all that! I'll pull up a chair and enjoy the show. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I'm in too, off you go Egbert! I'd not seen a 'Firebar' before and it certainly is an 'interesting' subject... Fuselage with interesting gaps, a bit flashy, sleek lines and a bit quirky, just like I like MY Women! Looking forward to you fettling it into submission. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggy Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 One of my favourite soviet aircraft from the Flash Gordon school of design. They look like somethin straight out of Dan Dare or Flash Gordon comics I have a pile of the members of this twin-engined family waiting for inspiration and a healthy dose of masochism. The kit you're building belongs to the very early Amodel production so it has all the charateristics of a VERY short run kit. I'll be following this project closely - you have more than enough modelling talent to make this difficult kit into a beautiful model! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rav Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Procopius said: " Сами не летаем – другим не дадим." ["The Sami can't fly – don't let anyone else."] -- Unofficial motto of the Войска ПВО СССР, Soviet Voyska-PVO Interesting translation. ;-) In fact it means simply "We don't fly and won't let anyone else". In Poland (and maybe in Russia too) a person thinking this way can be called "a gardener's dog" (in Polish: "pies ogrodnika") because it does not eat fruits and won't let others to taste them. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whofan Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I was taken with the wish to have "Pleasant time with our models" I'll be looking on with great interest to see if you do! Quote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 The Amodel Yak-28P needs some work - but it makes up into a decent model..... I have an old T-shirt showing a caricature of the Russian Knights Su-27 - and on the back it says in Cyrillic - "We have no brakes" Which seems odd at first - but when you understand that it is better translated as "There is nothing to stop us" it makes perfect sense. So the PVO motto is perhaps better translated as "If we don't fly - nobody else does" I have all of Amodel's Yak-25/27/28 series of kits - but have not yet got around to making any more after the Firebar. I did fancy having a go at marrying a Su-15 fuselage to engineless Yak-28 wings to make the one-off Yak-28-64 Have fun with your Yak..... Ken 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 That massive nose gear is... amusing. Almost as if they expected the pilot to slam the thing onto the deck at warp factor 5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 46 minutes ago, Rob G said: That massive nose gear is... amusing. Almost as if they expected the pilot to slam the thing onto the deck at warp factor 5. Gives a very good AOA for take-off too,I bet it didn't need much back stick to un-stick and climb away. I'm in too,I like Yakety-Yaks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonl Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I'd never heard of this one, but then Russian aircraft aren't a strong point for me. Count me in for the ride on what will no doubt be an informative build... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 If you run into trouble with that kit, I have a backup available for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Jessica, that was the very kit that started me on my enduring obsession with Russian aircraft. It must have been way back in the 70's - I made the Contrail Yak-28P version - and displayed it on a base with a hardstanding surrounded with piled-up snow as if at dispersal. Tim Perry (of PP Aeroparts) made me an etched-brass tow bar for it - which was huge. I think I might have won a couple of prizes with it. Ah! Nostalgia. Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 This could be interesting...I'm in! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I believe a modest but eloquent Hubba-hubba is required at this initial stage of proceedings. RAND documents, a Bill Gunston name-check, and a plane with pointy-parts all over it that reek of aerospatial optimism. Irrestitible! Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 A couple of pics to keep you going.... This is the ex-Khodynka Yak-28P now residing at the Vadim Zadorozhnie museum, Moscow ........ Ken 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 9 hours ago, Stew Dapple said: Well done Edward, you made me laugh before half-past six in the morning, an occurrence so unusual that the dog is now observing me carefully and, it must be said, suspiciously. Sad when a dog isn't willing to entertain the notion of preferring quality. 7 hours ago, Rob G said: I envy you the task you face - the fitting and fettling is my very bestest favourite part of mogelling. Actually, I'm much the same. It and unmasking are very therapeutic...until I stuff it up. 6 hours ago, Christer A said: Short-run kit, from an earlier period in Amodels life, of a bonkers looking russian plane. What could possible go wrong? Right? 6 hours ago, CedB said: I'd not seen a 'Firebar' before and it certainly is an 'interesting' subject... It is, very Me262-esque. It looks a lot more like an early 1950s jet than a late one, with the podded engines. 5 hours ago, Moggy said: The kit you're building belongs to the very early Amodel production so it has all the charateristics of a VERY short run kit. I'll be following this project closely - you have more than enough modelling talent to make this difficult kit into a beautiful model! I don't know about talent, but this is definitely short-run. I don't think it's worse than a High Planes kit in that department, though. The parts actually look quite nice! 4 hours ago, rav said: Interesting translation. ;-) In fact it means simply "We don't fly and won't let anyone else". Thanks, Rav! I have to rely on machine translations, so I greatly appreciate your language skills. 4 hours ago, Whofan said: I was taken with the wish to have "Pleasant time with our models" Yes, we'll see about that, won't we. 3 hours ago, Flankerman said: The Amodel Yak-28P needs some work - but it makes up into a decent model... Do you have any tips or know of any good reference photos, particularly of the gear and engines? Almost all of my books are in storage until my house is sold. Any tips on the build, Ken? Don't think mine will look as good as yours... 3 hours ago, Rob G said: That massive nose gear is... amusing. Almost as if they expected the pilot to slam the thing onto the deck at warp factor 5. Russian. 1 hour ago, Jessica said: If you run into trouble with that kit, I have a backup available for you. Eep! I saw someone doing a build of this while I was researching the kit. Looks scary. 45 minutes ago, TheBaron said: I believe a modest but eloquent Hubba-hubba is required at this initial stage of proceedings. RAND documents, a Bill Gunston name-check, and a plane with pointy-parts all over it that reek of aerospatial optimism. Irrestitible! One of the great things about RAND is that a lot of their 1960s-1980s papers are now online as free PDFs! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob85 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 This looks a bit different Edward! Should be be good to tag along to! Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Procopius said: It is, very Me262-esque. It looks a lot more like an early 1950s jet than a late one, with the podded engines. That's because it is an early '50s jet with the wings swept a little more, bigger engines and a pointier nose. Here's the Yak 25 it evolved from: 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jessica said: That's because it is an early '50s jet with the wings swept a little more, bigger engines and a pointier nose. Here's the Yak 25 it evolved from: Oh, I know about the Yak-25. Normally I love stupid looking Russian aircraft (MiG-21 and MiG-29 in their -SMT forms, for instance), but the Yak-25 crosses a red line for me. My god does it look dumb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Remember it was build during the early 1950s, when all good workers were required to love their tractors. All hail Glorious Soviet Agricultural Design School! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amblypygid Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 What a glorious creation, and it rather looks like Amodel obtained their tooling from an agricultural design school. Completing it will confer an enormous sense of achievement, I think. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Glad to see your recent Cold War Soviet purchases bearing fruit PC (although this one was purchased in 2011), this is definitely one to follow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 No photos tonight, as it's been almost all fettling. The wings are almost one piece, but there's a plate for the underside inboard of the engine pods, and it doesn't fit well without a bit of work. I've also been doing some test-fitting with rubber bands to hold the fuselages halves, which gently curve away from each other like reluctant lovers, together. Surprisingly, the cockpit floor fits pretty well, needs rounding off (at the very least) at the forward end so the fuselage can ultimately be forced closed around it. I spent an inordinate amount of time sanding and smoothing my second-hand radome out. It looks like it was previously glued with CA glue. Well, no longer! The shock cone/intake bullet/go-faster spike in each engine pod is four parts: front cone, top rear cone, bottom rear cone, fin. The whole kit and kaboodle forms a single piece composed of two back-to-back cones with three fins radiating off in a more or less cruciform shape. I can't find a good picture of a Yak-28 intake, but it should end up looking like this: The way you do this is by gluing on the third fin and then somehow trapping the whole assembly between the two engine pod, which looks to be a recipe for disaster. My plan is to assemble the pod and then slip the bullet in through the top and geeeeeently coax it into place with blandishments and threats, one after the other in quick succession. Tonight was Pumpkinfest in the sleepy hamlet of Highwood, and we took Winston to see it (IE Mrs P wanted to go, and we had to go with). Winston had a shot with a cute little girl toddler, but blew it because he saw a Ferris Wheel and went absolutely out of his mind with excitement. She was left standing there as he roared off on his absurdly short legs to stare in rapturous awe at what I can only assume he believed to be an avatar of his god, Almighty Ceiling Fan. We listed our house for sale yesterday; the first showing is Sunday. Wish me luck. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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