LOoking for Brigand Losses in OP Firedog

[Bruce Archer]

Hi All!

    Several years ago I met a Brigand crewman who flew in during Op Firedog at the dedication of Mike Potter's Spitfire LF.XVIe. I have lost his contact info and am trying to locate him. His Brigand lost a prop blade and went down, he saved the pilot, but the third crew was lost. I do think he may have moved to Canada.

     Does anyone know where I can find a list of Brigand losses with crew?

 

Thanks!

 

Bruce

[Wez]

As 45 and 84 Sqns were the users out in Malaya, their ORBs would help but they're probably a bit difficult to access from your location (unless they're available on line).

 

There was an article from The Aeroplane Monthly magazine from the late 1970's which describes Brigand operations in Malaya which I'm sure mentioned a prop being thrown in flight (IIRC corrosion was the culprit causing the cuff to shear and the blade unfortunately, was thrown through the cabin).  IIRC, there were more losses through defects and structural failures than anything else.

 

Sorry I can't help more.

[sanguin]

Dear Bruce,

I cannot help with the losses list information that you seek, but I will PM you with what little information I do have.

I get the impression that being aircrew on a Brigand wasn't considered to be a good insurance risk.

The mechanical and electrical failure rate on Brigands was pretty appalling for any sort of machinery, never mind an aircraft.  

All the best,

John

 

[sanguin]

Bruce, I found this site which may be useful to you:

 

http://www.brigandboys.org.uk

 

A number of the images are now missing, but it may give you some dates and a few names that could be helpful to you.

Another site that is useful is :

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?103657-Bristol-Brigand-in-the-Met-Recce-Role

However, do not use the link near the end that takes you to a download of the Bristol Brigand booklet by Chris Ashworth, it is a blind end on a site that seems to know it not.....

John

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by sanguin
new information

[XV107]

I think you're probably thinking of Peter Weston (details of his crash are on the Brigand Boys website)

 

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Westonbio3.html  (NB that this may try to open a midi file playing The White Cliffs of Dover)

 

He moved to Canada later in life and saved his pilot after the aircraft they were flying lost a prop (and the engine with it) in Brigand VS857; the circumstances - and captions to the photos, especially the second one down, appear to fit the incident of which you're thinking

 

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Weston35.html

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Weston34.html

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Weston33.html

 

There is a reference to the third crewmember, Vernon Bowen, who sadly died in the crash at the bottom of this page:

 

http://www.wwwmp.co.uk/carmarthenshire-war-memorials/cross-hands-war-memorial/

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by XV107

[vampiredave]

Several years ago I corresponded with a former CO of No.45 Squadron and he provided me with a list of "Self-Destructive Brigands" during 'Firedog' 1950 - 1952. He became confused at one point but this is what he sent me:

6 July 1950   RH850 No.,45 Sqn Keletan Hit trees during RP attack FO N Harben/Nav3 Smith/ SG3 Lloyd

11 Jan 1951  VS838 No.45 Sqn  Cameroon Highlands Caught fire following explosion during RP attack Sgt Hayler/ Sgt Robinson/ Sgt Hall 

This is  where he became vague - 16 or 18 Jan 1951 VS869? No.45 Sqn or 84 Sqn Negri Sembilan or Tengah During RP attack or asymmetric flying Sgts Kent & Ellis or FO Fuller, FS Gregory, FS Sharkey  Sorry about that - don't shoot the messenger?

15 Jun 1951 VS857 No.84 Sqn lost prop on t/o; cr Kranji Creek Sgt Bowen

19 Jun 1951 RH811 No.84 Sqn Tengah Officers Mess Stb engine broke away FO Matthews

Aircraft were then grounded and new propellers fitted

3 May 1952 RH755 No.84 Sqn  Kuala Lumpur Wing detached during RP attack; rolled & dived into ground FO 'Cockrane'/ Sgt Armstrong/ JT Cox

20 Dec 1952  RH823 No.84 Sqn  nr Kota Tinggi  Stb wing broke away FLt Massey/ FS Powell/ LAC Kay

 

I am sorry that it is not definitive but may provide a start?

[Bruce Archer]

On 10/3/2016 at 6:51 PM, XV107 said:

I think you're probably thinking of Peter Weston (details of his crash are on the Brigand Boys website)

 

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Westonbio3.html  (NB that this may try to open a midi file playing The White Cliffs of Dover)

 

He moved to Canada later in life and saved his pilot after the aircraft they were flying lost a prop (and the engine with it) in Brigand VS857; the circumstances - and captions to the photos, especially the second one down, appear to fit the incident of which you're thinking

 

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Weston35.html

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Weston34.html

http://www.justinmuseum.com/famjustin/Weston33.html

 

There is a reference to the third crewmember, Vernon Bowen, who sadly died in the crash at the bottom of this page:

 

http://www.wwwmp.co.uk/carmarthenshire-war-memorials/cross-hands-war-memorial/

 

 

YES! Now to find his contact information.

He was quite surprised that I knew about the problems with Brigands (that I even knew what a brigand was!), and Op Firedog. He was very nice and taken with my wife Dana (as were the Spitfire pilots of 421 Sqn who declared her a member of the Sqn!). We met quite a few Canadian Spitfire pilots that day, and sadly many are gone....

Thanx to:

Andy Mackenzie, Hap Kennedy, Charlie Fox, and the remaining group of great guys!

 

Bruce

[XV107]

I'm sorry to say that the evidence suggests that he's no longer with us. There was (possibly still is) a historian based in either the US or Canada who went/goes under the handle 'brickhistory' who used to post on both PPrune and, I think, the Key publishing forum (he did an article on Brigands in Fly Past; I didn't dig out old copies to find the article and work out who the chap actually is). He had corresponded with Peter Weston about his experiences and suggested that Mr Weston had died in the mid-2000s, I'm afraid.

 

This might, of course, mean that this isn't your man if you met him subsequent to about 2005, but the details did seem to fit your description.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by XV107