Republic Aviation interior green question

[Spitfires Forever]

Hello,

I am trying to figure out the best way to achieve an accurate cockpit green for my Tamiya P-47. The color seems to be more bluish in tone than the typical interior green. Does any manufacturer produce the proper color or should I try using IJN green and ad some other lighter interior green? I tried to find a thread on this subject but was too inept to suss it out, and to my friends who usually reply to my pleasure for help, no, I have never posted this topic before, I promise!

Cheers

Edited October 1, 2016 by Spitfires Forever
Misspelling/grammar

[PFlint]

ah !

the color you are going for is Dull Dark Green - my favorite for the P-47 (and Corsair)

you can start with FS 34092 and add drops of medium blue till you get it where you want it.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I have Dull Dark Green

[Guest]

Thanks guys, this can be done. Now, does this color apply to the seat and bulkhead sides behind the cockpit, or do I keep it OD green?

[Tbolt]

Well it depends what P-47 you are doing - early ones were zinc chromate then they changed to tinted zinc chromate then they changed to dark dull green. The problem is there seem to be no documents to tell when the changes occur, some photo show that zinc chromate was possible used up to the D-5, I haven't seen any evidence of it being used after this yet. Tinted ZC may be then been used for all the rest of the Razorbacks, when the Bubbletop came in at the D-25 they could have started using DDG, or it could have been used a bit earlier of a bit later, it  is very hard to pin down.

[Tbolt]

25 minutes ago, Spitfire addict said:

Thanks guys, this can be done. Now, does this color apply to the seat and bulkhead sides behind the cockpit, or do I keep it OD green?

 

What ever colour you use, the floor, bulkhead, armour, seat, rudder pedals and control column (not the hand grip) were all painted in it.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Tbolt

[Stein Meum]

According to Detail and Scale's volume on the T'bolt, all Republic-built P-47's were painted Dull Dark Green in the cockpit and Yellow Zinc Chromate wheel wells and LG door interiors.

Curtiss-built P-47's were painted Interior Green, but these planes did not see active service.

 

Post war, the remaining P-47's in service were painted black.

 

Stein 

[Tbolt]

5 hours ago, Stein Meum said:

According to Detail and Scale's volume on the T'bolt, all Republic-built P-47's were painted Dull Dark Green in the cockpit and Yellow Zinc Chromate wheel wells and LG door interiors.

Curtiss-built P-47's were painted Interior Green, but these planes did not see active service.

 

Post war, the remaining P-47's in service were painted black.

 

Stein 

 

Unfortunately the D&S book is a few years old now and is incorrect about the cockpit colours, but yes all the other areas are painted zinc chromate, except inside the engine cowl which was NMF.

[politicni komisar]

my

 

http://mrpaint.sk/eshop/farby/lietadla/USA?product_id=197

 

P.k

[Andrew D Jolly Rogers guy]

So, if I'm reading this right, without meaning to hijack the thread, an ANG Thunderbolt after the war, say, 1946-1950 would have had its cockpit redone in black? 

[politicni komisar]

Yes

[TheRealMrEd]

I agree with P. Flint, above.

 

I used 80% 34092 (European I Dark Green) and 20% 15050 (Blue Angels Blue) in the MM enamels line. The Japanese interior green is not blue enough -- ditto the White Ensign product.

 

Ed

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

4 hours ago, TheRealMrEd said:

I agree with P. Flint, above.

 

I used 80% 34092 (European I Dark Green) and 20% 15050 (Blue Angels Blue) in the MM enamels line. The Japanese interior green is not blue enough -- ditto the White Ensign product.

 

Ed

 

Hi Ed, do you have any hard evidence for that? We're always willing to update colours in view of better evidence, but don't recall seeing any criticism of either Colourcoats ACUS24 Dull Dark Green or ACUS30 Bronze Green #9. If you have anything solid I'd love to see it.

[Stein Meum]

On ‎02‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 9:33 PM, Andrew D Jolly Rogers guy said:

So, if I'm reading this right, without meaning to hijack the thread, an ANG Thunderbolt after the war, say, 1946-1950 would have had its cockpit redone in black? 

Yes.

[Stein Meum]

References to DDG in Republic P-47's are not confined to  the D/S volume. They are fairly numerous. Color photos do exist as well.

[Tbolt]

5 hours ago, Stein Meum said:

References to DDG in Republic P-47's are not confined to  the D/S volume. They are fairly numerous. Color photos do exist as well.

 

I don't know if you are referring to my post or not, but I did stay that DDG was used later on. I realise DDG is mentioned quite often but that doesn't make it correct.

 

Up till a couple of years ago I painted all my P-47 cockpits DDG, then manuals, colour and B&W photos and chatting with some of the P-47 experts has shown me that DDG wasn't used in all P-47's like everyone use to believe and it looks like ZC and TZC were used in P-47 cockpit before DDG.

 

But if you have colour photos of DDG in earlier P-47's I would be interested to see them.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Tbolt

[TheRealMrEd]

Hi, James

 

Sure wasn't trying to knock WEM paints, I've used them and like them a lot for the Pre-war and WWII colors.

 

As far as the bronze green thing, I don't have any old pieces of aircraft laying about, if that's what you mean by hard evidence. I will however, provide at least some of the basis for my statement, during which time I will lean somewhat on Dana Bell's classic cockpit colors  monologue, found here:  http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

 

Therein, he shows a photo of three ceramic urns glazed in bronze green. I also have copies of two photos of a B-25, which is claimed to have used bronze green on portions of the interior:

 

 

 

Lastly, a picture I took last night, showing WEM Bronze Green #9 on the left, and my "concoction" on the right:

 

 

Other problem of course ensue when trying to compare colors. Reflectance and luminosity as well as degree of sheen all have their impact. In this case, your product is flat and Mr Bell suggests that bronze green had at least a slight shine. Also, my sample mix  was slanted toward trying to achieve a "newly applied color", trying to compensate for the flash used in the following photo (bronze green is at upper center).

 

This color is also sometimes referred to as "North American Green"

 

Regardless of what each color is, I for one would be very happy  if you could create a color in this flavor, whatever you choose to call it. Also, I don't recall -- do you have anything in the line for the Deep Green also mentioned in the article?

 

In any event, I thank you for keeping the WEM paint line alive!

 

Ed

 

***EDIT*** Just realized that I had omitted the lst picture! Oops...

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by TheRealMrEd

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Hi Ed,

 

Any chance of a loan of a sample?

 

Best regards,

 

Jamie

[Seawinder]

Mr. Ed, I fear you're muddying the waters with your references to Bronze Green since the discussion of P-47 interiors was focused on Dull Dark Green. The photo you posted of the B-25 (?) cockpit looks to me like what I picture as DDG. The WEM sample of Bronze Green looks more like what I picture for that color, similar to, but not as blue as, DDG.

[TheRealMrEd]

Hi Seawinder,

 

I read in  the first article in this thread, where Spitfire Addict was trying to find a or "the" correct color for his P-47, one which seems "bluer" than the prevailing opinions. I don't see DDG mentioned in that post as the standard for discussion at all. If I'm wrong, my mistake.

 

That being said, the article i referenced earlier by Dana Bell says: " A possibility remains that Republic followed the instructions to the letter, obtaining some sort of black-green colour for the cockpit areas. Other hypotheses claim that the colour used could be Bronze Green or Dull Dark Green. Another mystery. "

 

Since I'm certain that we'd all agree that we are NOT discussing Olive Drab variants, then that leaves the other two (or more) possibilities as the "correct color" -- Bronze Green OR DDG.

 

I have seen at least 3 differing colors used in P-47 cockpit photos. Below are some examples, three of which feature the "bronze green" color, as referenced by the three ceramic jars in the photo.

 

First 3 ar P-47D's, last one a P-47M. Your  choice.

 

Point is, no one "knows" and unless you have a chunk of the plane in questions, there are several options, based on photographic evidence.

 

Ed

[Seawinder]

Mr. Ed: Thanks for the follow-up and further photos. From what I've read, I think DDG is much more likely than Bronze Green for any P-47 cockpit except (possibly) a very early example. The P-47M photo you posted, to me, shows DDG without a doubt, as does the photo directly above it. The other two photos, which I read as restorations, don't seem to jive with any of the established cockpit colors.

 

In any case, I think the -M photo you posted serves as a good model for a Jug cockpit after the change-over (as described by TBolt above) from ZC and/or TZC, whenever that may have been.