Brushable RAL paints needed!

[NotDaMama]

Afternoon! I'm new to the site so if this has been covered elsewhere please point me in the right direction. If not, I appeal to your collective wisdom. 

 

I, foolishly it seems, got my hands on Humbrols RAL range recently and have been attempting to use them with limited to zero success, thus I'm in need of an alternative. Don't really mind if they're acrylic or enamel but ideally they need to be brush paintable and not need to be mixed up from other colours. 

 

What can you gents recommend that fits the bill? 

 

Cheers! 

[Julien]

Xtracolor do some RAL paints and Sovereign Hobbies do some in their colour coats range.

 

 

 

[PhantomBigStu]

Quite a few of Revell paint range are RAL colours  

[NotDaMama]

Thanks guys. 

 

I know of xtracolour, but wasn't sure they could be applied by brush. Not the greatest fan of revell but I'll check it out and see how I get on. 

 

Much appreciated. 

[johnd]

The Sovereign Hobbies paints are easier to brush than Xtracolour (assuming they're the same as the old WEM ones). Xtracolour also takes longer to dry.

 

I've absolutely no idea whether they're an accurate representation of the originals, though.

 

John.

[NotDaMama]

Thanks for the info John, I've just ordered from Sovereign so should be able to find out how good they are this week. 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

15 hours ago, johnd said:

The Sovereign Hobbies paints are easier to brush than Xtracolour (assuming they're the same as the old WEM ones). Xtracolour also takes longer to dry.

 

I've absolutely no idea whether they're an accurate representation of the originals, though.

 

John.

 

Thanks for the endorsement John. Our RLM colours are matched to Kiroff & Merrick's colour chips. Our new post-war RAL colours are matched to our RAL Classic colourchips.

 

There are a few colours where Merrick and Kiroff's colours are different to Ullman or Eagle Editions' views - e.g. RLM65, with the former being very blue and the latter being very green, but that's what they're matched to so you can decide whether you place Jurgen Kiroff's approach (unravelling old documentation and formulae and producing new paint to that understanding) or Ullman's / Eagle Editions' approaches (quite old and potentially colour shifted, but original, colourchips) higher.

 

Formulation is essentially unchanged from WEM days. It's the same enamel base oil, same pigments, same extenders and same machines. Our aircraft colours are mostly satin with some exceptions which have a proportion of the enamel base oil displaced in favour of flatting agent, hence the paint feels more structured than a full gloss and there's less enamel base to cure through in the applied coat of a given opacity hence the faster drying time. Our matts have a higher proportion of flatting agent again, displacing yet more oil so these dry faster still.

[NotDaMama]

I haven't used WEM before but I've heard good things and I'm familiar with the Merrick & Kiroff chips, so hearing this I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the paints. 

 

How long do the satin colours take to dry between coats? Fast drying isn't so much of a requirement but I usually built two kits at once so it helps to plan ahead. 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

It depends to some extent on what you thin with. With white spirit and room temperature I'd check after ~4 hours somewhere inconspicuous (or if like me - on a patch of the workbench you accidently painted!) to see if it's touch dry before handling, but I'd leave the 6 hours marked on the label for masking or brushing over the top though as whilst it will be well stuck and won't lift with masking, the new oil and thinner will soften the paint underneath, possibly too much. I wouldn't use cellulose thinner for brush painting - it's too hot for most plastic used this way although it's fine for airbrush application. To be honest most of my use is with airbrush with brushes for detail painting so whilst I'd handle and recoat sooner, I'm erring on the side of caution as brushing gives thicker coats which take longer to dry, and is also more aggressive on the undercoat when recoating.

 

Given that most people sleep for part of each day and to cover myself, I'd suggest waiting until the following day before brushing another coat on over satin colours.

 

You'll no doubt already know this and it's written on the labels too, but please ensure the contents are well stirred before use. All shaking tins (and particularly full ones) is good for is coating the underside of the lid! The pigments and extenders are suspended rather than dissolved in the carrier liquid. This is typical for paints, but it does mean that gravity will naturally cause the important bits to sink to the bottom leaving a tinted liquid at the top! I mention this because we did have a chap contact us who was having difficulty using it. It turned out he'd simply cracked the lid off a tin of RAF Blue Grey, poured it in to his airbrush jar and tried spraying without so much as a shake of the tin or a drop of thinner!

[NotDaMama]

I've been using Humbrols enamel thinners recently but I've got plenty of white spirit I can use, that's no problem. It's also good to know they'll airbrush, thanks for that. I do have an airbrush, but finding somewhere to use it is the catch! 

 

Everything else sounds about right for how I handle my current enamels, so that's great news, bar the attempts at airbrushing the carrier oil! 

 

Now to find something to occupy idle hands until the postie brings the goods...

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

The Humbrol enamel thinner, if naptha based, will very probably work fine assuming there's nothing weird in it. We have our own naptha base one also. It dries a little quicker than with white spirit so I used white spirit as a worst-case As above, cellulose is great for airbrushing (provided it's extracted as it really smells) but you'd paint your brush strokes into the plastic surface doing it the traditional way!

[NotDaMama]

I have a feeling it is naptha based, I remember reading that somewhere but I'm becoming very disillusioned with humbrol despite being a loyal customer for 15 years. I'd seen your thinners too, but the Mrs saw my total bill...  something for next month! 

 

You've been a great help. Can't thank you guys enough.  

 

Cheers. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I've recently used Humbrol acrylic RLM paints through an airbrush (thinned with Tamiya X-20a) and also with a paintbrush (no X-20a but one drop of Tamiya Retarder in the mix with distilled water) without any problems at all.....I was rather impressed with them TBH. 

 

 

[NotDaMama]

I envy you there Sgt, I got the RLM 71 down ok, but the 02 went 50/50 with thinners before it was even usable (thinner straight into the tin, too) and the 76 is best left unmentioned! Wonder if they haven't done something to their batches 

[stevehnz]

I'm using Hunbrols 241 & 242 on a current build, not a good experience, two brushed coats of the 242 (RLM71) still a bit streaky, & the 1st coat of 241 (RLM70) over the top will need another coat too. Might have to call some of the streaking weathering.   I really do need to email the Aussie distributors of Jame's paints & see what they can do for me, what is the best quantity to shipping cost ratio 'cause I can see a big fat NEED coming on.

Steve.

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Maybe try using distilled water rather than thinners for brush painting.....I've always found Humbrol acrylics brush well with water and I only add the drop of retarder to give me a little more working time with the mix (I always paint from a pallette). 

 

I've got 241 & 242 in stock but not used them yet (not commonly found on tanks), I'll be using whichever one is 'Black-Green' on the props of my Bf.110 shortly (probably through the airbrush), if it gives me any gyp I'll report back. 

 

PS - Keep in mind that I am using the acrylics, I can't vouch for the enamel range. 

[stevehnz]

Sorry, should've said it was the Humbrol enamels, I was kind of responding to the OP. I've dabbled with acrylics but keep coming back to the enamels, hence keen to try some Sovereign paints.

Steve.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

10 hours ago, stevehnz said:

I'm using Hunbrols 241 & 242 on a current build, not a good experience, two brushed coats of the 242 (RLM71) still a bit streaky, & the 1st coat of 241 (RLM70) over the top will need another coat too. Might have to call some of the streaking weathering.   I really do need to email the Aussie distributors of Jame's paints & see what they can do for me, what is the best quantity to shipping cost ratio 'cause I can see a big fat NEED coming on.

Steve.

 

 

Hi Steve, re shipping - in practical terms for us it's as much as possible - the UK domestic rate covers 1 tin to 10kg's worth, whilst the overseas DF service has a large fixed fee for the first 10kg + paperwork + IATA packing and a fairly nominal uplift fee per additional 10kg after that.

 

I'd email Glenn at Creative to ask about their specifics though. I don't know what service they're using to get to NZ.

[NotDaMama]

6 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Sorry, should've said it was the Humbrol enamels, I was kind of responding to the OP. I've dabbled with acrylics but keep coming back to the enamels, hence keen to try some Sovereign paints.

Steve.

 

Hi Steve. 

 

As soon as I've had a chance to mess about with the sovereign paints I've ordered I'll post here to let you know how I've got on.

 

I've been fighting a losing battle with the humbrol enamels, but acrylics have never caused me too much issue, just not my thing. Never could get on with them well. 

[viscount806x]

Hi Sovereign Models,

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/70597-rlm-luftwaffe-comparison-chart/

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234987729-x-tracolor-rlm-65/

 

As above linkys, RLM 65 had two shades according to Ullman so you would be correct to have it light blue or a more greeny tint depending on the period of WW2..

[NotDaMama]

On 27/09/2016 at 2:58 AM, stevehnz said:

Sorry, should've said it was the Humbrol enamels, I was kind of responding to the OP. I've dabbled with acrylics but keep coming back to the enamels, hence keen to try some Sovereign paints.

Steve.

Hi Steve 

Got the delivery today and had a chance to get some down on my current build. My opinion on the Sovereign paints is a very good one so far. They've thinned nicely, not needed too much thinner for my style and they've got a good coverage. The below are the tins ordered and a quick photo from the build. There's two coats on the fuselage, one on the pit, for your reference. 

 

 

Hope this is of use to you chap.