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Airfix Me 262 A-1a Schwalbe 1/72 Released - New Boxing Me 262B-1a released


sofiane1718

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I don't think you can think of Airfix as a seperate company within Hornby PLC it is a seperate brand. I believe the human resources are employed across all of the Hornby Brands especially at a management level.

 

 

 

 

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Airfix problems stem from a period when most of the bad decisions where made by people with Airfix name tag, to name just one

is trying to cut wholesale business and boost direct online sales.

 Getting back to 262 topic, in time when you have such competition-subject wise, would it be prudent to distinguish your product with features no current kit has, namely positionable slats and  flaps,

more so when surface details and finesse won't match your competition.

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I read in a BBC article that two kits alone created a huge proportion of Airfix profits last year. They didn't state which two.

 

Apparently this led to a circa 50% cut in the range, to try to streamline and focus  production. If I can find the article again I'll return and edit it into this post.

 

They have to look after their shareholders and workforce, have to make a good profit; at least stop losses.

 

Their Wimpy release is superb news. It will surely be popular.

 

Back to the 262, they are taking pre-orders on the website. It looks like it will be a nice kit. I'm sure there will be lots of aftermarket; flaps, vac canopy, resin engines, wheels and so on. The kit will thus also generate income, for other companies, some overseas.

 

We certainly have no lack of aftermarket decal options for the 262 already!

 

I for one can't wait for it to be released. I can see it has potential for a 'Dogfight Double' boxing too :) . I wonder what they would choose for the adversary?

 

Best regards 

TonyT

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1 hour ago, Stew Dapple said:

 

Did I miss something? What 'competition' are you referring to here?

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

 

I think Thomas must be referring to either the Hasegawa or Academy kits, both not without their faults and price points much higher than Airfix as well as limited availability.

 

As for finesse of surface detail, how he knows without seeing the actual kit I don't know?

 

I do agree the flaps and particularly the slats should be separate parts.

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40 minutes ago, TonyTiger66 said:

 

 

I for one can't wait for it to be released. I can see it has potential for a 'Dogfight Double' boxing too :) . I wonder what they would choose for the adversary?

 

Best regards 

TonyT

 

The new Tempest they're going to announce next maybe? :whistle:

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1 hour ago, TonyTiger66 said:

 

I for one can't wait for it to be released. I can see it has potential for a 'Dogfight Double' boxing too :) . I wonder what they would choose for the adversary?

 

 

it was the Mosquito back in the early 70s and the 'original' DD - first kit(s) I ever built.   The Academy 262 tooling was first released back in 2007! It is reasonably detailed but as with a number of Academy WWII kits the basic outline shapes are a bit off; the fuselage is rather fat and wide with an overly bulbous nose. The Academy glazing is, for example, far too wide for the Revell kit. The canopy in the last Revell 262 I attempted was un-useable but it can't be replaced with an Academy canopy  (which also happens to be a tad 'flattened-out' at the top..)

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1 hour ago, Wez said:

 

The new Tempest they're going to announce next maybe? :whistle:

 

Or the Spitfire Mk XIV...? ;)

 

More likely another P-51, which will give them plenty of markings options to choose from.

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6 hours ago, Wez said:

 

I think Thomas must be referring to either the Hasegawa or Academy kits, both not without their faults and price points much higher than Airfix as well as limited availability.

 

As for finesse of surface detail, how he knows without seeing the actual kit I don't know?

 

I do agree the flaps and particularly the slats should be separate parts.

I don't agree: to make flaps and slats separate costs money ie increases the price of the kit to (in my opinion) no great advantage.

A quick search through my available photos showed very few intact machines with either deployed.

Off hand I can't think of any other Messerschmitt kit with separate slats.  As for the flaps, and in particular those associated with the radiators, a case could be made for them to be separate on the Bf109.  Here they are often seen 'open' yet as far I know no kit has these deployable either!

Ironically the original Airfix 262 did have 'deployable' flaps, but only between the engines and fuselage!

The virtue of the Airfix kit is/will be that it is cheap, simple (good when aimed at the younger market) and above all accurate.  The sprue layout suggests a 2 seat follow on.

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1 hour ago, Denford said:

I don't agree: to make flaps and slats separate costs money ie increases the price of the kit to (in my opinion) no great advantage.

A quick search through my available photos showed very few intact machines with either deployed.

Off hand I can't think of any other Messerschmitt kit with separate slats.  As for the flaps, and in particular those associated with the radiators, a case could be made for them to be separate on the Bf109.  Here they are often seen 'open' yet as far I know no kit has these deployable either!

Ironically the original Airfix 262 did have 'deployable' flaps, but only between the engines and fuselage!

The virtue of the Airfix kit is/will be that it is cheap, simple (good when aimed at the younger market) and above all accurate.  The sprue layout suggests a 2 seat follow on.

 

And here I have to disagree with you because I have seen pictures with them deployed, it's been a while since I last looked, but off the top of my head in the Czech MBI and JaPo publications and the Polish AJ Press books, unfortunately I'm away from my references and will be for some time to check.

 

Hasegawa correctly moulded these features in their 1/48th Bf-109's over 20 years ago. The slats are simple aerodynamic slats without actuators, they should deploy on the gound. This is also a feature Airfix correctly captured on their excellent 1/72nd A-4B Skyhawk, so they can do it.

 

As for increasing complexity, the original Airfix 1/72nd Me-262 was a Series 1 kit, I remember it well because it was the 2nd kit I ever bought and it was in a plastic bag with a card header, the plastic was light blue. This incarnation has jumped to Series 3, I don't think it's unreasonable for modellers to expect a corresponding jump in kit complexity as a result.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to this kit, I hope it will become the go-to 1/72nd Me-262 but I think Airfix could really have knocked the opposition into a cocked hat by providing deployable flaps and importantly, slats.

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Personally I'm not convinced every kit needs to be as complex as possible..

 

Adding extra bits in the form of poseable slats and flaps adds cost in terms of design hours, adds cost in terms of tooling cavities and adds cost in terms of material. 

 

 A lot of potential buyers of the kit simply won't care if they are present or not. Those that really want em will modify the base kit to add them in...

 

Its win win Airfix get to deliver a product with a lower complexity and cost. More advanced modellers get a nice base kit with which to super detail as they see fit..

 

everyone should be happy....

 

Plasto

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I am a big fan of the Airfix brand, and wish them well, as I've said before, a very big part of our brilliant hobby, off subject I know, The Me 262 was supposed to have been issued by now.

if there has been a change in might be good for Airfix, maybe more new kit's, but I bet sure fire sellers, maybe a change in scales 1/32, and 1/35, maybe introduced, we will see😊

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22 minutes ago, Plasto said:

Personally I'm not convinced every kit needs to be as complex as possible..

 

Adding extra bits in the form of poseable slats and flaps adds cost in terms of design hours, adds cost in terms of tooling cavities and adds cost in terms of material. 

 

 A lot of potential buyers of the kit simply won't care if they are present or not. Those that really want em will modify the base kit to add them in...

 

Its win win Airfix get to deliver a product with a lower complexity and cost. More advanced modellers get a nice base kit with which to super detail as they see fit..

 

everyone should be happy....

 

Plasto


I think it was an good choise of Airfix to have two types of flaps to their P-51D in 1/72. I don't think anyone has arguments against that. And it's still cheap...

/ André

Edited by Andre B
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Yep... I agree the Mustang is a nice kit and the flaps are a nice  feature.

 

The Mustang was developed and tooled when Hornby were in a different phase of their business..

 

The 262 is being released during a different phase.. 

 

Anyhow the design is done and the tooling is cut.  I'm sure the 262  will be very nice as is...

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16 hours ago, Wez said:

 

And here I have to disagree with you because I have seen pictures with them deployed, it's been a while since I last looked, but off the top of my head in the Czech MBI and JaPo publications and the Polish AJ Press books, unfortunately I'm away from my references and will be for some time to check.

 

Hasegawa correctly moulded these features in their 1/48th Bf-109's over 20 years ago. The slats are simple aerodynamic slats without actuators, they should deploy on the gound. This is also a feature Airfix correctly captured on their excellent 1/72nd A-4B Skyhawk, so they can do it.

 

As for increasing complexity, the original Airfix 1/72nd Me-262 was a Series 1 kit, I remember it well because it was the 2nd kit I ever bought and it was in a plastic bag with a card header, the plastic was light blue. This incarnation has jumped to Series 3, I don't think it's unreasonable for modellers to expect a corresponding jump in kit complexity as a result.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to this kit, I hope it will become the go-to 1/72nd Me-262 but I think Airfix could really have knocked the opposition into a cocked hat by providing deployable flaps and importantly, slats.

Come on Wez ,remember what are sprung slats for.?  To deploy at times when the aircraft is close to stalling to lower the speed at which a stall would occur. Those slats that you have seen deployed on the ground are due to sticking rails, lack of servicing or Biggles stressing the frame. They should not be deployed in normal operation as they cause drag.

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slats1.jpg

 

think back to the 'famous' Transit films 262 walkaround sequence in the 'Wings of the Luftwaffe' video series. The slats can be deployed on the ground by simply pulling them out  - and leaving them out. Whether this was because they had a tendency to stick or not I don't know. The ground crew then push them back in.

 

slats2.jpg

 

The sequence goes on to show the technician working on open inboard slats, pushing them in and letting them open of their own accord. Suggests they should ideally be deployed open on the ground ( eg take off and landing )  especially if well serviced - it's aerodynamic forces that keep them in

 

slat3.jpg

 

slats4.jpg

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4 hours ago, sammy da fish said:

Come on Wez ,remember what are sprung slats for.?  To deploy at times when the aircraft is close to stalling to lower the speed at which a stall would occur. Those slats that you have seen deployed on the ground are due to sticking rails, lack of servicing or Biggles stressing the frame. They should not be deployed in normal operation as they cause drag.

 

But that's the point Simon, these aren't sprung slats, they're aerodynamic ones which rely on air pressure to keep them shut, once you get boundary flow separation caused by lack of lift there's insufficient pressure to keep them closed good old gravity takes over and they pop out to provide lift.

 

These types of slat have no actuators to deploy them and no springs to pull them shut, they simply have rails to guide them in and out and they should be free to move on those rails, the last thing Herr Pilot needed is for them to stick in the wrong position, worse still one side staying shut and the other open or vise-versa.

 

The video clips show the techy verifying they are free to move. Because the Me-262 has a tricycle undercarriage the wing is more horizontal to the ground, its more likely that gravity will overcome and the slats will drop on their rails.  You're less likely to see this on a Bf-109 because some of gravity will be acting with the coefficient of friction to keep them in.

 

All that said, the kit is what it is and a lack of deployed slats and flaps won't prevent me buying it.

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21 hours ago, Wez said:

 

And here I have to disagree with you because I have seen pictures with them deployed, it's been a while since I last looked, but off the top of my head in the Czech MBI and JaPo publications and the Polish AJ Press books, unfortunately I'm away from my references and will be for some time to check.

 

Hasegawa correctly moulded these features in their 1/48th Bf-109's over 20 years ago. The slats are simple aerodynamic slats without actuators, they should deploy on the gound. This is also a feature Airfix correctly captured on their excellent 1/72nd A-4B Skyhawk, so they can do it.

 

As for increasing complexity, the original Airfix 1/72nd Me-262 was a Series 1 kit, I remember it well because it was the 2nd kit I ever bought and it was in a plastic bag with a card header, the plastic was light blue. This incarnation has jumped to Series 3, I don't think it's unreasonable for modellers to expect a corresponding jump in kit complexity as a result.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to this kit, I hope it will become the go-to 1/72nd Me-262 but I think Airfix could really have knocked the opposition into a cocked hat by providing deployable flaps and importantly, slats.

Here I have to both agree and disagree!

Any kit can be 'enhanced' by the addition of other features: here, poseable flaps, slats and control surfaces, hinged canopy (like Revell), super detailed cockpit, external stores, removable panels to reveal armament, engines, nose camera etc.  Each adds to the cost, so potentially fewer buyers.  Who will redress this by buying more because these features are included?  I suggest very few.  Not many would buy it over the opposition because these of features, when it is the most accurate and cheapest!

First the flaps, normally only used for take off and landing.  The RAF had penalties for those who taxied with flaps down, because of the risk of damage from objects in the propeller wake.  Less of a hazard for jets, but still not good practice.  I stand to be corrected, but I can't think of any other 1/72 kit (excepting the P-51 as a special case) supplied with separate flaps.

Leading edge slats. As most modellers build for ground standing, there must be provision for this if they are always open on the ground.  Essential for SB2C Helldiver (mechanically linked) and A-4B which seems their 'natural' position when parked.  For a few others 'more often than not' eg F-86D.  For the 262 'optional'.  However, logically, there must always be provision for 'in flight' too.  I don't know how Airfix dealt with this on the A-4, but for the 262 there's a problem.  There'd have to be two sets: one with a little spacer to stand them proud and another without.  The latter must fit and fit well.  Long, thin narrow: somebody somewhere will have one warped, bent, flashed or otherwise mis-shapen (maybe the slot not quite deep enough) and scream blue murder over Airfix' lack of quality control.

So best leave it off if it isn't essential.  Wisely, in my view, Airfix have gone for the simplest, plain vanilla option.  Ideal for paring with a P-51D as Dog Fight Double (for younger modellers) and surely a 2 seat version to follow.  Let the likes of Eduard or Quickboost provide accessories.

 

 

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Sounds to me like the slats might be a little fiddly and prone to breakage at 1/72, so probably a wise choice by Airfix to simplify in this area.  I would like to think that the aftermarket guys might be able to supply a resin insert to replace the slats after they've been cut away.  in fact a slither of plasticard appropriately shaped and bent might do at this scale anyway?

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The point about the slats and flaps is this, some modellers (and I hasten to add I'm not one of them), expect a modern kit tooled in 2016/17 at the level of complexity of a Series 3 kit to have separate slats and flaps, I get that as it's how the aircraft would routinely be seen on the ground, please don't confuse another services practices with another or the specific requirements of an individual aircraft type.

 

Likewise, the same people would probably expect it to be covered in dimples to represent rivets, however, I've said it before, if those were scaled up to real aircraft size they would be indicative of an overstressed airframe that would at best require re-skinning if not scrapping.

 

I'm happy for Airfix not to include separate slats and flaps, if I want to add those I can, after all, that's called modelling isn't it?  Likewise, I'm more than happy with the surface detail presented, I don't want to see more pulled rivets, I've seen enough in real life.

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I made i quick look at the new and flying Me 262's today. Both flaps and slats are often seen hanging/deployed under both taxying and parked.
Would the routins be different from wartimes routins concerning the same aircraft types?

Cheers / André

 

http://www.simplyplanes.co.uk/berlin_air_show_internationale_luft-und_raumfahrtausstellung.shtml
 

 

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I'm not an expert at all on matters Me 262 but do any kit manufacturers include separate slats in 1/72? Relating them to Bf 109s which I have made a couple, makes me think that slats in this scale would be fiddly & fragile beyond words, heck, they're bad enough on an F-86 for those that do them, & they're a degree or two larger.

Steve

Edited by stevehnz
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The slats were always hanging out on the ground.They were operated almost freely with some springs. They worked on the base of when the speed was right they would be pushed by the frontal wind force to retract. I believe it was the same prisiple as on the 109 and 110. 

If a aircraft came near stalling speed (like in a very tight curve) they would deploy automaticaly. I have seen a few years back a film of a test flight and a guy sees that they arent working properly so he fixes them with some pliers.

take a look here at this documentry from youtube. It's at about the 18th minute. 

 

 

I hope it helps.

 

Cheers,

Edited by Arniec
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46 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

I'm not an expert at all on matters Me 262 but do any kit manufacturers include separate slats in 1/72? Relating them to Bf 109s which I have made a couple, makes me think that slats in this scale would be fiddly & fragile beyond words, heck, they're bad enough on an F-86 for those that do them, & they're a degree or two larger.

Steve

How many kits was made of the P-51 Mustang before Academy made one with loose flaps? Even Tamiya did their kit with fixed flaps. Arifix was the first maker with choise of both.
As no one before had come upp with an idea about deployed slats and flaps before doesn't mean that this isn't an good idea today. I would say that make a 1/72 kit with deployed slats would make me get the Airfix kit instead of an Tamiya, Academy or Revell... ...and the same ting about the flaps is making me prefering the Airfix P-51D before the Tamiya or Hasegawa kits...

/André

Edited by Andre B
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Fair comment Andre, tecnology does move on. P-51 flaps are rather more substantial than Messerschmitt slats to my eye though. Has technology got to the stage where they're going to be scale size & hassle free in 1/72. :unsure:

Steve.

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