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RIAF Hurricane with elephant nose art - did it exist?


Torgeir Eikeland

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Hello

I'm building a Hasegawa Hurricane IIC, and would like to paint it in the markings of 1. Sqn RIAF with the "A * A" codes, serials KZ 352 and the red elephant for nose art. I even have the Montex masks for this scheme.

Now, the problem is reference. Despite having been looking for photographic evidence for ten years I have yet to see a photo of this machine. I suspect the scheme stems from an old and unconfirmed profile, probably in Mason's old book on the Hurricane.

Anyone?

 

Regards

Torgeir E.

 

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I've been looking longer:  I think it first appeared in the Profile or before that, perhaps an RAF Flying Review.  I had the Max Abt(?) transfer of it, used on a Keilkraft Hurricane.  My suspicion is that the A.A code is a mistake: I have seen a photo of a Hurricane Fighter bomber coded A(?).A, which I presume to be AF.A of 607 Sq. This was in an Aircraft Illustrated Extra.   A pilot is standing in front of the second letter - if there is one, the gap suggests that there is.  The problem being that 607 was a fighter not a fighter-bomber unit, when it flew the Hurricane.  However, the aircraft in the photo was in the distance, and there would be no means of seeing whether it had an elephant on the nose or not.

 

The other possibility is that it was an IAF unit, presumably 1 Sq, but as far as I can see the IAF did not carry squadron codes on its Hurricanes.

 

EDIT: The original references did say 1 Sq IAF

I believe someone has identified the Hurribomber unit in the photo, and it isn't 607 nor 1 IAF.

Edited by Graham Boak
Memory kicking in late.
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I believe that Hurricane is the aircraft of the 1 Sqn RIAF CO Sqn Ldr Arjan Singh DFC, hence the letters 'A S' above the elephant motif. The squadron was designated Tac-R and used Hurricane IIB and IIC, arriving in Imphal from the NW Frontier (Kohat) on 3 Feb 44. They were engaged on ops over Burma until May 1945 including air combats, serving alongside 28 Sqn RAF which was engaged on similar duties They began re-rquipping with the IIC from June 1944. 

 

Before becoming CO Singh had been the A Flight leader for a long time and the unusual codes 'A A' possibly relate to that. The profile could be based on an unpublished photo in Singh's personal album or on his description of the Hurricane.

 

Nick

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On ‎20‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 5:24 PM, cossack52 said:

memory may be playing tricks,but i think the humbrol boing of the heller kit included the red elephant marking

 

Yes it did.

 

AA

 

 

 

Chris

Edited by dogsbody
Photobucket can suck it!
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1 hour ago, MilneBay said:

I thought that was the Heller kit.

 

It was both. Heller first issued the kit with those markings and it was subsequently re-issued as Humbrol and as Heller-Humbrol, both featuring photos of a built-up model of this RIAF Hurri on the box. 

I can't recall if the very first Heller release in 1977 included the RIAF option but the 1980 'black box' second issue did.

 

Nick 

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1 hour ago, Ed Russell said:

The original artwork is by Richard Ward in the Hurricane Profile. It can be found on Wings Palette with a reference that it is from the Bharat-Rakshak site. I am thinking it's the same story as the red radar calibration Hurricane.

 

Ward's profile also appeared in the 1971 Aircam book on the Hurricane but was not identified as Singh's aircraft. I'm not sure when the Profile booklet was published but the profile on the Bharat-Rakshak site is the same one. There are a few photographs there of Sqn Ldr Singh and 1 Sqn Hurris but none showing these markings. There is also a good operations history of 1 Sqn RIAF there as it tends to get overlooked in other books.

 

Nick

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11 hours ago, Nick Millman said:

I believe that Hurricane is the aircraft of the 1 Sqn RIAF CO Sqn Ldr Arjan Singh DFC, hence the letters 'A S' above the elephant motif. The squadron was designated Tac-R and used Hurricane IIB and IIC, arriving in Imphal from the NW Frontier (Kohat) on 3 Feb 44. They were engaged on ops over Burma until May 1945 including air combats, serving alongside 28 Sqn RAF which was engaged on similar duties They began re-rquipping with the IIC from June 1944. 

 

Before becoming CO Singh had been the A Flight leader for a long time and the unusual codes 'A A' possibly relate to that. The profile could be based on an unpublished photo in Singh's personal album or on his description of the Hurricane.

 

Nick

Thank you. This seems to be a rather well educated guess which may give just sufficient motivation for a build ;).

In the profiles the AC is usually depicted in day fighter colours wearing Dark Green/Ocean Grey upper surfaces. This is a deviation from the regulation colours of SEAC.

In the profiles it also lacks the tropical filter. If this was the case it should make it a little bit more likely that it was also painted in the "European scheme".

 

2 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

The original artwork is by Richard Ward in the Hurricane Profile. It can be found on Wings Palette with a reference that it is from the Bharat-Rakshak site. I am thinking it's the same story as the red radar calibration Hurricane.

Just curious: what was the story? I have seen the profiles, and also have the decals for it.

Edited by Torgeir Eikeland
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12 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

 

 

The other possibility is that it was an IAF unit, presumably 1 Sq, but as far as I can see the IAF did not carry squadron codes on its Hurricanes.

 

EDIT: The original references did say 1 Sq IAF

I believe someone has identified the Hurribomber unit in the photo, and it isn't 607 nor 1 IAF.

Yes, that is another questionable point: The 1 IAF reportedly were using Hurricane IIBs during the Imphal-battle. At least according to information at the Bharat-Rakshak-webpage. 

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Profile Publications #24 The Hawker Hurricane IIC appeared in 1965.

Just curious: what was the story?

I meant the story of this thread has an uncanny resemblance to this one

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234972519-hurricane-mki-p2992-of-527-radar-calibration-sqn-red/

(Hurricane, respectable profile artist, profile proliferation, lack of photograph, ?private sources)

 

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29 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

Profile Publications #24 The Hawker Hurricane IIC appeared in 1965.

 

I meant the story of this thread has an uncanny resemblance to this one

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234972519-hurricane-mki-p2992-of-527-radar-calibration-sqn-red/

(Hurricane, respectable profile artist, profile proliferation, lack of photograph, ?private sources)

 

 

Thanks. Yes, I know that you meant that! 

 

Nick

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There were stories about the Mk.IIB being used in the front line, and the Mk.IIC when the squadrons returned to Calcutta.  This makes sense in terms of agility vs firepower, but Franks' book Hurricanes over the Arakan shows that Mk IIC were seen alongside the Mk.IIB on operations, if in small numbers.  So there's nothing basically unlikely in 1 IAF having at least one Mk.IIC, and if so human nature suggests that it would be the squadron commander's personal one.

 

However, the profile does not show the Sky trim usually seen with the Day Fighter Scheme, as seen on at least one other Hurricane in India.  At the time of its appearance, and for a long time afterwards, it was not realised that fighters in SEAC were NOT in normal UK Fighter Command colours.  There are many pieces of artwork showing green/grey aircraft, but although there may be some wiggle room in 1945, in 1943/44 Temperate Land Scheme can be assumed to be universal on the front line.  I would model this aircraft in TLS, were I doing it again.

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As already mentioned in my earlier post above (!;-) 1 Sqn began re-equipping with the IIC in June 1944 and the Imphal battle ran from March to July 1944.

 

Concur with Graham that the CO was likely to have had first dibs on the new aircraft and also TLS as being more probable for Tac-R Hurris working the Burma front lines. Under surfaces in MSG were officially introduced for SEAC from April 1944 but in practice probably preceded that date. Before that under surfaces in SEAC were Azure Blue. I don't know whether the IICs were new or hand me downs but presumably the serial will confirm that. 

 

Nick

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  • 1 year later...

I have been trying to find a photograph to support this photo and have come up with naught. It doesnt make sense that the No.1 Squadron "Tigers" would have an aircraft painted with an elephant motif. 

 

Reg the serials of the IICs, you will find a few here - http://www.rafcommands.com/database/losses/listing.php?qunit=1 Sqdn IAF&qt=UT&qyear=1944

 

 

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Im no expert on this or many other subjects. You are correct it doesn't make sense that a squadron named for “Tigers” had an elephant on there aircraft. However that being said could it have been a personal crest just for the one pilot ? More to the point since since it is so hard to find a photo of that specific aircraft in question. How about any other aircraft from the unit ? Did any of them have the elephant or no ? I’ve built the hasegawa kit almost 15 years ago. And i always figured it was the personal crest of the C/O. 

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  • 5 months later...
On 10/15/2017 at 6:03 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Im no expert on this or many other subjects. You are correct it doesn't make sense that a squadron named for “Tigers” had an elephant on there aircraft. However that being said could it have been a personal crest just for the one pilot ? More to the point since since it is so hard to find a photo of that specific aircraft in question. How about any other aircraft from the unit ? Did any of them have the elephant or no ? I’ve built the hasegawa kit almost 15 years ago. And i always figured it was the personal crest of the C/O. 

Sorry for my late reply. very few images of the Hurricanes exist. None show an elephant.   you can check out a few of the images at http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/History/WW2/Imphal/ 

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Hi, everyone,

 

I seem to remember that an old Aeromaster ("Foreign Hurricanes") came with this option. It was a IIc without the Vokes filter and OG/DG camouflage. The elephant came in Red, if memory serves me well.

 

FErnando

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To steal and catchphrase from a well known Boltoner,.... and to alter it slightly,....... "No photo,.... No likey",....... I`ve never seen a photo and so therefore do not trust this rendition of the Hurricane,...... same as the famous Kuttlewascher Night Intruder,..... I`ve seen it in overall black but never with grey green camp!

 

Cheers

        Tony

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1 hour ago, tonyot said:

To steal and catchphrase from a well known Boltoner,.... and to alter it slightly,....... "No photo,.... No likey",....... I`ve never seen a photo and so therefore do not trust this rendition of the Hurricane,...... same as the famous Kuttlewascher Night Intruder,..... I`ve seen it in overall black but never with grey green camp!

 

Cheers

        Tony

Yes, this risks getting very circular.  As far as I know, the artwork for this aircraft, by Richard Ward, first appeared in Aircam 24 Hawker Hurricane in 1971.  I have just been through that publication from cover to cover: no photo to substantiate it (as there frequently is for other featured artwork schemes).  The fact that this striking scheme has subsequently been picked up and regurgitated by producers of kits, transfers and other artwork does not change the fact that no photographic evidence that it ever existed has so far been produced.  As  #Troy Smith's byline says, "Remember ..never trust a profile without a photo."  

 

The same Aircam also has the artwork of the orange/red 527 Sq radar calibration Hurricane to which Ed has already referred.  Again, despite all the additional info that has become available since 1971, no-one has produced photographic confirmation that the scheme existed.  

 

No, I am not saying that Richard Ward made these schemes up.  He may have had access to private photo archives.  He may have reconstructed the scheme from eye-witness descriptions.  But these were early days in the study of aircraft camouflage and markings and the burden of proof is higher nowadays.

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15 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Yes, this risks getting very circular.  As far as I know, the artwork for this aircraft, by Richard Ward, first appeared in Aircam 24 Hawker Hurricane in 1971.  I have just been through that publication from cover to cover: no photo to substantiate it (as there frequently is for other featured artwork schemes).  The fact that this striking scheme has subsequently been picked up and regurgitated by producers of kits, transfers and other artwork does not change the fact that no photographic evidence that it ever existed has so far been produced.  As  #Troy Smith's byline says, "Remember ..never trust a profile without a photo."  

 

 

The Red Hurricane and Elephant both appeared in the relevant Profile publications with profiles by James Goulding, which preceded the Aircams (They have prices in shillings on the cover). I think the mk II one came out in 1965

 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Aircraft-Profiles/Britain/WW2/Hawker-Hurrican-IIC-24/Hawker-Hurricane-IIC-24-_Page_11-960

 

Again, no photos of the Indian example are shown, but this is the earliest i can find that references that option.

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