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Saab J-29B Tunnan questions


JMChladek

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Recently picked up the Hobbyboss J-29B (and yes, I know the kit is undersized for its stated 1/48 scale, I am STILL going to build it since it likely will be the only Tunnan in my collection and I can live with it being a few millimeters off in some dimensions) and I was wondering if I could get some help with some simple questions. I have a few references, including the very old Profile Publications #36. But it is a bit light in a couple areas and HB is notorious for research blunders on their colors.

 

Cockpit: Is there any cockpit image resource out there for the J-29B? In absense of that, would J-29F cockpit imagery work?

 

Walkaround: Any images of close up items such as the landing gear bays and gear struts? 

Congo Crisis camouflage: The reason I want to do the 29B is for the UN paintscheme. I know the jets arrived in the region in aluminum and some planes (but maybe not all) got the camo scheme when they flew combat operations against Katanga. Based on what I was able to piece together, the green/midnight blue (or black) camo scheme seems to be what the Swedish AF began using on the Saab Drakens but with the wispy yellow lines on top to break up the pattern). The questionmark involves the bottom of the aircraft. Did they go with Neutral gray on the bottoms of the wings and tailplane or did they remain aluminum? My gut feeling says aluminum as it seems it would have been a very tough job to paint the underside cleanly at a central African military base and the metal finish down there was nice and dull already.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Hi, JMChladek

Wing and horizontal tail lower surfaces had been left unpainted. However, it is a different story with UN Tunnan fuselages. While white F 29398 (now in Linköping museum) is in a wrap-around scheme, white E 29393, apart from her nose, had natural metal lower fuselage. Camouflage schemes also varied considerably from one airplane to another, so individual modelling approach (choose the plane, depicted on as many photos as possible) is probably the best.

As far as I can recall colours of Linköping exhibit were actually dark green and olive green without light brown/sand lines and curves. I had been comparing 29398 colours with various paint chips and I had been duly taping my findings, as I had been crawling for days all over museum's planes back in 1999. Unfortunately, upon my return I failed to make transcriptions, so while those precious cassettes are still here somewhere, it would probably take me weeks to find them, a most discouraging prospect.

Check Linköping aircraft museum online for photos of their J 29 (one of few Tunnans to actually return to Sweden, most of them were blown up in Kongo at the conclusion of the UN mission, almost barbaric behavior from today's perspective), I believe she is still in her original colours. Cheers

Jure

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Hi

 

The preserved J 29 at the Airforce museum in Linköping is totally wrong in colours. It was painted for the opening of the museum in the 80's. 

 

A close mathch to the camouflage is:

FS34079

FS33105

and dark yellow/ orange stripes

Underside: natural aluminium

 

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Hi, Matave

Pity about Linköping J 29 B, but at least I had a good time back then. What about WWII planes, like J.21, B.17 and B.18? Obviously they were repainted (and in several cases, rebuilt), but had it been done with accurate colours at least? And what about aircraft in Swedinos museum? Some of them, like T-6 Texans, looked pretty tired to me, so were they still in their original colours? Cheers

Jure

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Thank you gentlemen, I very much appreciate it as that confirmed by suspicions about the undersides being unpolished aluminum. Hearing about how well the Swedish did in the Congo with these jets has always been an inspiration. I am going to have some fun with this model. I am probably going to end up doing White J, since that is the jet I have markings for and I know it was one of at least two Tunnans that got demolished in Africa since it was pot marked with AAA shrapnel holes.

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Hi, JMChladek

I understand only four out of eleven Tunnans returned to Sweden: both S 29 Cs, J 29 B 29371 and the resident of Linköping museum, J 29 B 29398. Of the other seven, two had been written off, the first I take as a result of heavy landing and unfortunately I have no idea about the second one. Regardless of a cause, all but the one lost in landing accident had been blown up at Kamina in September 1963, although on at least one (29365) a dummy had been catapulted out of its cockpit first, probably to provide some entertainment for the troops. All five Sabres, provided by Italy for Philippine air force pilots flying UN missions in Kongo had also been stripped of enough components to be rendered useless, too. While at the time economic reasons behind such an act were perfectly rational (no point in transporting already obsolete planes back home, after they had outlived their usefulness), my inner model builder is screaming in agony whenever I happen to remember this episode.

I got above mentioned details from Leif Hellström's book Fredsflygarna - FN-flyget i Kongo 1960-1964. I do not speak Swedish, so I apologize for possible mistakes. Nevertheless, I highly recommend the book to anyone, who wants to learn more about that conflicts. Cheers

Jure

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No worries Jure, I think I have what I need. The old Profile Publications book I have (written in 1965) provides the serials and fate of the Tunnans used in the Congo. Here is the list it provided:

 

J-29B, 29374, tail code white "D", crashed on 23 March 1963 after engine failure (hard landing?), blown up

J-29B, 29393, tail code white "E", blown up

J-29B, 29398, tail code white "F", returned to Sweden for museum use

J-29B, 29440, tail code white "G", crashed on 16 March 1962 (likely the commander's crash), blown up

J-29B, 29475, tail code white "J", "seriously war damaged" (i.e. shot full of AAA holes), blown up

J-29B, 29364, tail code white "G", blown up (replacement arrived in July 1962 for previous "G")

J-29B, 29445, tail code white "H", blown up

J-29B, 29371, tail code white "C", Returned to Sweden and scrapped

J-29B, 29365, tail code white "I", blown up

S-29C, 29944, tail code white "A", returned to Sweden and AF service

S-29C, 29906, tail code white "B", returned to Sweden and AF service

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About the colours of the Swedish Air Force Museum.

 

Most of the aircraft are in the right colours.

However,

the colors are right on the J 8 Gloster Gladiator in Finnish (F 19) markings, but the camouflage is wrong. The letter H should be Bold font.

 

J 21A, J 21R and B 18B. Colours are right. Some of the markings are wrong.

The J 21R has modern font numbers.

J 21A, the R on fins should be larger covering almost the whole fin.

The Italian aircraft, J 11 Fiat CR 42, J 20 Re 2000 and S 16 caproni 313 have all the wrong colours and the wrong camouflage.  

 

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Hi, Mateve

Thank you for the information and I am glad not all of my work back then was not in vain. What about B.4A of F 19, displayed in the museum? To me it looks similar to how you described situation with J.8 Gladiator, that she is painted in correct colours, but the camouflage pattern is incorrect. Cheers

Jure

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Hi

 

The B 4 Hawker Hart at the SwAF museum is ok in colours and markings. (No markings on the top wing). The colours are the standard SwAF colours, green and blueish grey with silver dope camouflage. The camouflage was only applied on one of the B 4's "M". The others were all green and blueish grey.

 

There is a lot of info on the Swedish F 19 voluntary wing in Finland in the book: Gloster Gladiator & Hawker Hart In combat with Swedish voluntary Wing F 19, Finland 1940 by Mikael Forslund. Colour profiles of all aircraft showing the individual camouflage. 

 

6.jpeg

 

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Hi, Matave

Thank you for information about the Gladiator and Hart book, sounds promising. All I got on B.4 is the old Kontakt brochure which contains only two photos of F 19 Harts, and both had been taken after the planes had returned to Sweden with Finnish swastikas overpainted. Cheers

Jure

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/19/2016 at 6:42 PM, Matave said:

Hi

 

The preserved J 29 at the Airforce museum in Linköping is totally wrong in colours. It was painted for the opening of the museum in the 80's. 

 

A close mathch to the camouflage is:

FS34079

FS33105

and dark yellow/ orange stripes

Underside: natural aluminium

 

Correct, I don't think 29398 was ever camouflaged. After UNO service it was acquired by the Smithsonian Institute and was stored at Silver Hill, Maryland in its original natural metal scheme with UN markings. I have a slide of it taken there in 1970. Not sure when it was shipped back to Sweden.

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Ha, I saw the Tunnan at Silver Hill (about 1985), and the docent said something along the lines of "It was given to us, we couldn't really refuse, but we're not very interested!"  I'm glad to hear that it found a home where it'll be more appreciated.

 

bob

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