71chally Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) I'm looking to model one of my Fujimi Phantoms with the EMI reconnaissance pod underneath the centreline. Not having one in the kit I made a wanted appeal through the forum, and RSMan very kindly supplied me both a Fujimi and Matchbox example. I was tipped off that the two kits pods are different in size. Having now received the items, that is a clearly an understatement! The Matchbox one is considerably bigger, and first impression was that it is nearer to the proper size both in length and width. I have trawled the net and forums and I can find very little detail on the actual pod, the most helpful reference for this comparison case is a size, being given at 24ft long. ( http://www.airrecce.co.uk/postww2/ac/Phantom/Phantom.html ) If I have scaled this properly, this equates to 101.6 mm long, the Matchbox pod is near as damn it that length. Not only this but just looks more in keeping with the shape and form of the original, with the Fujimi example looking very undernourished but with the two underside bulges actually being over size and looking too obvious. However, another reference mentions that the photo pod was designed to be as close to the centreline fuel tank shape and size as possible, in which case the Fujimi example would be nearer. Phantom FGR.2 EMI recce pod (1) by James Thomas, on Flickr Phantom FGR.2 EMI recce pod (3) by James Thomas, on Flickr Here are some comparison pictures of the two pods, white plastic is the Matchbox parts, note the two inner pod halves are for the centreline tank, and you can see how the Fujimi parts in grey compare. Phantom FGR.2 EMI recce pod (4) by James Thomas, on Flickr Also going from photos, the detail in the Matchbox example seems more correct, especially around the nosecone and the two inlets. Can anyone add anything here about the size of the EMI pod, or check that I have scaled correctly? In fact, any further details of the pod in general would be most welcome! BTW has anyone got this Phantom recce set, I can't find any reviews or pictures of it at all, http://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/raf-phantom-fgr2-recces-suite-upgrade-set-6577-p.asp Edited September 5, 2016 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datguy Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 The EMI pod is VERY big. This photo should allow you to scale out the correct version. https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6040/6344395476_a748eb73ab_b.jpg A prior BM thread, that I can't locate right now, also suggested the Matchbox pod to be the better size match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) What is also quite striking is the immense difference in pylon location. MB looks about centred. if the 24' figure is correct, your scaling is, too. I'll have a look in the Aeromodeller drawings this evening, they should feature the pod, I think. Alternatively (or cumulatively) the Aerodata drawing will be another logical target for me, and possibly also the Aircraft Illustrated Special (yes, I know where I have all three of them!). Not sure if the Lock On has a drawing and/or measurements. I hope I do not forget. Thinking about it, the MB kit may well have been influenced (based on ) the AM drawings... Edited September 5, 2016 by tempestfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 The resin set you asked about was originally crafted by another firm whose name escapes me for now, but the set is very good in detail. The pod I have not measured, and I won't be home for a while, the strobe pod is a converted Sergeant Fletcher pod used by FGR.2's, and a strike camera which fits in the forward sparrow bay. Worth getting your hands on. Ted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boffin Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 The Alley Cat set was originally by Odds and Ordnance. I have one tucked away and I know I was happy with it when I bought it, but I didn't check dimensions. HTH George 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) Lovely, thanks for the info so far. Datguy, I have that pic and another similar from IWM, never occurred to me to use them for scale! Tempest fan, look forward to anything you dig out. Rhino and Boffin, thanks for the kit details, I might just go ahead and get that, especially if it includes the flash pod. Be interesting to see how the recce pod scales out. Interesting weapon loads shown on XV407 & '499 with a recce pod, one mostly bombs and one missiles, I wouldn't have equated the recce role with offensive loads. Edited September 5, 2016 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Regrettably, not much: The Nichols drawings as reprinted in Aircraft Archive do not feature the pod, neither do the Granger drawings in the Aerodata. Forgot to check the AI Special. Odd - I'm convinced I have something, somewhere. Do you happen to have the Osprey Combat Aircraft (large format) book from the late 80s ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Thanks for looking, I don't have that book unfortunately. It seems that there isn't much out there on the EMI pod, there is a complete one in the RAFMuseum store, need to photo and measure that one oneday! Currently erring on the side of the Matchbox pod (who'd of thought it!), but may invest in the resin set, be nice to have the flash unit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 This source confirms the similar dimensions to the c/l tank, and suggests they had a very short service life, which may go some way to explain the scarcity of info. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I have the Osprey book. There's a page of text about the pod (in the present tense, although the book wasn't published until 1984) but only one not specially good photo, of a pair of 2 Sqn Phantoms fitted with it flying in company with a pair of the Squadron's new Jaguars, also carrying recce pods. One of the EMI pods is painted up with a sharkmouth.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 One of the EMI pods is painted up with a sharkmouth.. The best one, clearly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) For what it's worth, there is a drawing of the centerline tank here: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2013/06/things-under-wings-f4h-f-4-phantom.html However, if the pod is the same length as the 600-gallon tank, when carried it must be located farther aft, since its aft tip is clearly farther aft than the tank's. My guess is that the pod is actually longer, since its nose appears to be where the tank's is. Edited September 6, 2016 by Tailspin Turtle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Thanks again everyone, That's the source that I mentioned earlier Tempestfan, unfortunately nothing to back that info up. Great info there Tailspin, nice useful detail of the tank especially around those seldom seen sway brace/fins which also seem to be fitted to the EMI pod. The wing and centreline drawings have been very useful for scaling purposes. It's pretty obvious now having looked at various photos just how much larger the pod is than the centreline tank, it seems to extend mainly further aft than the tank. Fujimis' pod is made of an upper and lower half, the upper half looks the same as their tank so is definitely too small. It seems that generally the Phantom recce pod went out of use c.1976 when 2 & 41 Sqns re-equiped with Jags and their EMI pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boffin Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 The length of the pod is given as 24ft in the Phantom Story by Thornborough. George 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Bunker Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 24' (288") = 101.6mm (4.00") in 1/72 scale whereas the centreline tank is 21'8" (260") giving 91.7mm (3.61") in 1/72 scale so my money is on the Matchbox pod being closer to size than the Fujimi one. Hopefully somebody can measure the plastic and confirm this? Now all we need is a good drawing of the modified Sergeant Fletcher fuel tank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Just got out my Fujimi Phantom from the stash and the kits Recce Pod is very close to 90mm. Luckily enough, I recall reading something about the kits small size pod a while back and managed to salvage a Matchbox pod for the eventual build. The old Matchbox parts are much larger overall and in 1/72 measures (to my eye) exactly 100mm. So if we take if that boffin and Nigel's information above is correct, then the Mtachbox kit is pretty close to being spot on lengthwise. Cheers.. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Now all we need is a good drawing of the modified Sergeant Fletcher fuel tank. What is the modification to the Sergeant Fletcher fuel tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) I have given the Matchbox length in the first post, just a smidge over 100mm. The whole thing just looks better though, the bulk of the pod and the shallower blisters are far better rendered than by Fujimi. I'm not sure (as I only have the pod halves) if the Matchbox pod comes with the fins/sway braces though? Easy enough to make mind. Edited September 8, 2016 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 What is the modification to the Sergeant Fletcher fuel tank? I believe it's called the Flash Pod, for recce work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs2man Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I'm not sure (as I only have the pod halves) if the Matchbox pod comes with the fins/sway braces though? Easy enough to make mind. No mate , the Matchbox kit supplied just the 2 halves of the pod , so you'll have to scratchbuild the fins/sway braces 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boffin Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 The only good picture I know of for the flash pod is in Double Ugly's "British Phantoms 1966-78" There is also a line drawing which identifies it as the LS-93A Electronic Night Flash system AIM have just poduced it in 1/48 as a new front and back for a 370 ga tank George 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 I thought I had posted this in my first post, but hadn't. Phantom FGR.2 EMI recce pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Matchbox pod half at top, Fujimi below. I definitely think Fujimi went on the erronous info of the pod being similar in size to the drop tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I believe it's called the Flash Pod, for recce work. Ah, thanks for that. New to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) You very rarely see pictures of the L93 Flash pod carried. You can see it here on XV406, the test aircraft for the pod, http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=24359. And here, last Phantom picture when you scroll down page http://sg-etuo.de/Visiting-Aircraft/RAF-No2-Sqn Edited September 9, 2016 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagRigger Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 This thread has a useful pic of the flash pod http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=45752&page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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