TSR-2 fuel tank caps

[gluefinger]

Hi Again,

I'm in the process of decalling my TSR in what-if colours, with weathering and the whole nine yards. What I'm hoping to find out is the location of the fuel filler caps so I can stain and weather the areas.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Dave

[canberra kid]

Hi Dave

I'm fairly sure the TSR.2 had a single refueling point just aft of the port side main wheel bay.

John

[stever219]

Not sure about there being one in/near the port wheel bay but there was definitely one at the rear of the nose wheel bay. If you look at the third photo above you can see the hose from the bowser running up into the nose wheel bay. I should imagine that the front tanks needed to be at least part filled before the rears in order to prevent the jet sitting on its tail if the rear tanks filled first: having the filler under the front end of No. 1 tank should have helped to ensure this, but I expect that production aircraft would have had a fuelling sequencer like, for instance, the Vulcan to ensure the the CG stayed exactly where it was meant to. AFAIK there were no gravity filling points on wings or upper fuselage. If you've got a copy of, or access to, "TSR 2, Britain's lost bomber" there's a full schematic of the fuel system which should show fuel filling and drain points.

Edited September 5, 2016 by stever219

[Selwyn]

Hi Again,

I'm in the process of decalling my TSR in what-if colours, with weathering and the whole nine yards. What I'm hoping to find out is the location of the fuel filler caps so I can stain and weather the areas.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Dave

It would be single point pressure refuelling and there would not be any staining or weathering.

Selwyn

[Ascoteer]

Not sure about there being one in/near the port wheel bay but there was definitely one at the rear of the nose wheel bay. If you look at the third photo above you can see the hose from the bowser running up into the nose wheel bay. I should imagine that the front tanks needed to be at least part filled before the rears in order to prevent the jet sitting on its tail if the rear tanks filled first:

I'd suggest what you are seing is a ground power cable.

With a single point refuel panel there would be no need to have multiple fuel lines since you can contol how each tank fills from the SPR panel itself.

[Julien]

Dont aircraft which have a single point refueling point also have separate points to fill individual tanks if the SPR is not available?

I know the KC-135 has these.

[Ascoteer]

Yes they do, but they are generally over wing, gravity refuel points.

[canberra kid]

I sit corrected, it was a two point system, the second point was starboard side near the intake.

When I get back today I will scan a page from the "sales brochure"

John

[canberra kid]

John

[stever219]

I've had a trawl of the photos on the Walkaround page and I think that the hose plugged in behind the port wheel bay is for the engine start air hose. The symbols on the fuselage side don't look like those for fuel, but someone who's been in airframe-related trades should be able to confirm or refute this I hope.

[tweeky]

Why airframes trade it was the Sooty's or Liney's job to fill the jet up

[Jabba]

Why airframes trade it was the Sooty's or Liney's job to fill the jet up

I was a Rigger and I refuelled aircraft.

[Ascoteer]

I was a Pilot and even I refuelled aircraft!

(Generally on land-away turnrouds)

[Aeronut]

I was an Air Cadet gliding instructor, we did everything. Admin, flying, instructing (ground and air), BF, AF, TR servicings including refuelling, acted as fireman, air traffic, MT driver, cook, cleaner, storeman, squipper, child minder, you name it we did it. So well did we do it that the RAF big wigs got rid of us just in case some politician caught on and got what remains of the RAF to do the same.

[71chally]

The pictures above are form a whole sequence taken at a time of engine and systems checks on the ground, which mans cables and hoses everywhere.

The hose going in behind the port u/c is for high pressure air starting.

I've always thought that the main refueling point was behind a panel under the centreline of the fuselage, just behind the nose gear bay, which that last photo seems to show.

[canberra kid]

The pictures above are form a whole sequence taken at a time of engine and systems checks on the ground, which mans cables and hoses everywhere.

The hose going in behind the port u/c is for high pressure air starting.

I've always thought that the main refueling point was behind a panel under the centreline of the fuselage, just behind the nose gear bay, which that last photo seems to show.

I think you are right

John

[stever219]

There's a photo in "Britain's lost bomber" looking directly up into the rear of he nose wheel bay with the refuelling point clearly identified as such. Somewhere just behind the bay was the AAPP bay, but I don't think there was a receptacle within that bay or simply mounted in or on the door.

I didn't intend to offend any ground tradesmen or women by ascribing to them jobs that weren't theirs so if I did I sincerely apologise.

Edited September 7, 2016 by stever219

[dambuster]

From the TSR2 Crew's Notes:

The pressure refuelling/defuelling connection is in the nosewheel bay.

Power supplies for refuelling are taken from the battery busbar, enabling the operation to be carried out without external supply; however to avoid running down the aircraft battery a ground d.c. Supply will normally be connected for refuelling.

Refuelling is monitored and controlled from the navigator's fuel panel.

There are two air systems, main and auxillary. When on the ground with engines stationary, air supplies can be obtained from the auxillary power plant or the ground starting trolley for the main system, or from the ground starting trolley for the auxillary system. Ground supply points are also provided for the operation of specific parts of the main system during servicing.

A diagram of the auxillary air system shows three ground connection points, and one of the functions of the auxillary air system is fuel tank pressurization and venting.

Note XR219 and XR 220 were not fitted with the auxillary power plant, so all ground air had to be supplied from a ground starting trolley.

Peter

Edited September 7, 2016 by dambuster

[71chally]

Nice picture of the nosebay here http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/images7/waTS-26.jpg, is it the round grey plug centre rear?

Looks like air conditioning behind the nosebay.

Edited September 8, 2016 by 71chally

[canberra kid]

[stever219]

Nice picture of the nosebay here http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/images7/waTS-26.jpg, is it the round grey plug centre rear?..

That's the one.

Super photo there John, wonderfully atmospheric.

Edited September 8, 2016 by stever219

[canberra kid]

That's the one.

Super photo there John, wonderfully atmospheric.

Thanks, there are some fantastic photos of her, but it's not too surprising given that she is such a photogenic subject!

John

[stever219]

If you want to weather and stain your TSR 2 the fuselage sides below the trailing edge of the wings became discoloured by the hot air (tapped from the engine compressors this would probably have been at or above 100 degrees Centigrade) from the flap blowing system.  The edges of the avionics bay doors on the front fuselage sides also appear to have become quite grubby as they seem to have been opened at the end of each flight.  I'm sure you can find other examples. but please try to avoid outlining every panel with a wash; you can see from the photos above that most panel joints are almost invisible.  If you've built the 1/48th scale Airfix kit some of the panel lines are spurious, for example there's one that delineates the main wheel well area and actually impinges upon a small access panel that should be there (the 1/72nd kit is better in this, and other, respects).