Question: type of plane that dropped double agent Eddie Chapman into England1942

[28ZComeback]

In the book "ZigZag" the author states that double agent Eddie Chapman was dropped into England by a "Focke Wulf" aircraft with a crew of two, however it is unlikely that such was the case; the only FW aircraft in the Paris district were FW-56. Would anyone care to speculate on which type of aircraft dropped Eddie Chapman into England in 1942? Thank you very much in advance.

[Jimbobtheflimbob]

The FW189 'Uhu' would fit the bill but has 3 seats.

Will

[Graham Boak]

A Fw 58 Weihe would fit the bill, but would seem to be a bit vulnerable. I suspect he will have been parachuted from a Ju 88, Do 217 or He 111 - possibly not the last.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Graham Boak

[brewerjerry]

The FW189 'Uhu' would fit the bill but has 3 seats.

Will

Hi

It would make sense, two crew, one passenger ?

and maybe a confusing shape for allied gunners ?

cheers

jerry

[MilneBay]

Perhaps a FW 58 - seems to fit the bill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_58

[old thumper]

I always wondered what this aircraft was. The book mentions that the pilot told Chapman the aircraft was too fast to catch which confuses me as to what it could possibly be. Another clue would be that it would need to be a aircraft that was relatively easy to exit from. My guess would be a Junkers 88.

[JWM]

If Fw-189 - what about the "B" variant?

[rossm]

I always wondered what this aircraft was. The book mentions that the pilot told Chapman the aircraft was too fast to catch which confuses me as to what it could possibly be.

Two seat Fw190 - or is it too early for that variant?

[Mike Starmer]

One factor is missing here. Where did Chapman land? The range of aircraft is critical and must have the facility to drop a agent and close any apertures afterwards. The common method was to use the bomb bay areas in He III and Ju 88 but a Fw 200 would be better. I wouldn't put too much stress on only a crew of two.

[old thumper]

Two seat Fw190 - or is it too early for that variant?

I wouldn't have thought it to be a good aircraft to jump from.

[Dave Fleming]

One factor is missing here. Where did Chapman land? The range of aircraft is critical and must have the facility to drop a agent and close any apertures afterwards. The common method was to use the bomb bay areas in He III and Ju 88 but a Fw 200 would be better. I wouldn't put too much stress on only a crew of two.

Cambridgeshire. I would suspect a Ju88 would be the most likely type, I would have thought a Condor would be too vulnerable

Edited September 5, 2016 by Dave Fleming

[Procopius]

I wouldn't have thought it to be a good aircraft to jump from.

I believe one jettisons the canopy to bail out of an Fw190, so it would be pretty drafty on the way back.

[JWM]

In the book of Ben Macintyre about "Agent Zigzag" it is said on page 1 : " ...a German spy drops from a black Focke-Wulf reconnaissance plane"... When the book was written I think Eddie Chapman was alive - so the name of airplane comes likely from him. The most obvious recce FW was FW 189 indeed. It was slow and silent - so like Lysander a rebour. However an action like that should be done by KG 200 - who likely had FW 200 rather than FW 189... Later (in 1943,...) typicaly the German agents were droped from captured Alies mashines like B 17, for instance. So - a big airplane. Maybe then - why not Fw 200?

J-W

[Graham Boak]

Because of the vulnerability of the type - and even more so the slow FW 189 - to the Allied defences. The Lysanders survived by flying very low, which is not a good idea for dropping agents. Peter Stahl was a Ju 88 pilot detached to KG200 for agent dropping: he writes of flying the Ju188 but this was somewhat later.

[brewerjerry]

Hi

I think it mentions in a kg200 book that they had fw 189's

not sure kg200 existed in 1942, but maybe another unit/flight was around.

cant read it on my iphone but linked

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6ZcACwAAQBAJ&pg=PA294&lpg=PA294&dq=kg200+fw+189&source=bl&ots=kptL7IeSvv&sig=E7oxs4SlnFABrOJ9koiZCBb-R-Y&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjzonAofnOAhVI-2MKHfx8Af8Q6AEITzAL#v=onepage&q=kg200%20fw%20189&f=false

cheers

jerry

Edited September 5, 2016 by brewerjerry

[cossack52]

how about a captured allied type?

[nuuumannn]

Reading this thread with interest. Reading through the excellent book KG 200 The Luftwaffe's Most Secret Unit gives info about the agent dropping flights into the UK carried out by the Luftwaffe, but not, at the time Chapman was dropped, by KG 200 specifically (KG 200 was officially formed in February 1944 out of existing special units). These were carried out by reconnaissance units, specifically, Auflklarungsgruppe Ob.d.L, a secret unit developed especially by Theodore Rowehl, basically Germany's Sidney Cotton, or should it be that Cotton was Britain's Rowehl, since he was using Lufthansa's civilian airliners (He 111s and Do 17s among other types) to carry out covert photo reconnaissance over mainland Europe before Cotton came up with the idea of fitting cameras to his Lockheed 12. Anyway, this guy's unit was directly linked to the Abwehr (German intelligence agency), rather than the normal LW command and it was responsible for operating the high altitude Ju 86Ps over Britain that were initially uninterceptable, and the book states that He 111s were used for dropping agents into Ireland in 1940 around the time of the Battle of Britain and Do 17s were used subsequently as well.

Chapman is mentioned being air dropped into Britain in a later chapter, but it doesn't specify from which type of aircraft. Taking a look at the list of types operated by KG 200 and its predecessors, the Fw 189 is not mentioned, but the Fw 200 is; four were used, three ex-Lufthansa pax versions fitted with cameras for long range recon over the British Isles and the fourth was the prototype Fw 200 C-1, which, again was used for recon after the fitting of cameras. There is no mention of these being used for agent drops in the chapter that deals with this subject - and it is dealt with extensively. I suspect that the Fw 200 wouldn't have been used for that purpose; it was too cumbersome for the type of operation required for agent dropping, not to mention the fact that in 1942 it would have stood out like dog's man-vegetables on British radar screens. By December, when Chapman was dropped, Britain's skies were almost a closed shop to enemy air activity; something small and relatively stealthy was needed.

If convention was to be followed, it's highly likely that it was an He 111 or Do 17 that was used, but since a Focke Wulf aircraft was specified, it throws convention away. Has Zig Zag's author been led astray by a faulty memory? Quite possibly; the human mind is not infallible when recalling memories, although '...a black Focke Wulf reconnaissance plane' certainly does fit the Fw 189 based on what we already know and out of those discussed here is the most likely. Although the KG 200 book omits the Fw 189 from its list, it comes with the caveat that;

"Whilst this is the most comprehensive list of aircraft used by KG 200 and its predecessor units published to date, it should be recognised that other aircraft were also used. All those noted here are confirmed by photographs and other documentary evidence, such as log books or loss lists."

Fw 189s were quite a versatile type and although they weren't fast by fighter standards, could clip along at a cruise speed of 200 mph. On the Russian front the type was used as a night interceptor against Polikarpov U-2s, being fitted with radar and a Shrage Muzik weapon installation in the rear cabin. The problem I have with the Fw 189 as an agent dropper is how the agent exits the aircraft. The only real option was out the rear gunner's cupola, which had a conical glazed section that would have to be removed, leaving a small circular hole of not considerable dimension to crawl through, then fall out of. Even then, he has to contend with the threat of hitting the hori stab directly aft of him as he tumbled out the orifice, or one of the tail booms. The only other way is if the canopy was opened in flight and he crawled out onto the wing to avoid hitting the tail and booms, which is highly unlikely, even at low speed. It's not entirely impossible that the Fw 189 was used for agent dropping, but it's highly implausible because of the aircraft's configuration. There were more suitable options available that had been successfully used in the past.

Based on these things, I would have thought that the previous types mentioned would have been most likely, and adding the Ju 88, which had equipped the Abwehr's recon units by that time, although that's not a given. A single Fw 58 is listed in the book however, and since it was considered a utility type that was used by the recon units, it's possible, but its speed was a disadvantage; its performance was akin to that of an Anson. This might not have been such a disadvantage owing to the nature of agent dropping at any rate. Nevertheless, a small number were used by Lufthansa before the war and Rowehl had in-roads there as he managed to get cameras fitted to serving LH airliners, although by 1942 the Fw 58 was in abundance in LW units as a liaison transport. This is all speculation however, and does nothing to get us closer to a definite answer.

Edited September 6, 2016 by nuuumannn

[tango98]

IMHO, I would suggest it was a variant of the He 111 which throughout the war years, was used quite extensively for these type of missions, quite notably on the Eastern Front.

Cheers

Dave

[tempestfan]

IIRC the H-23 as preserved at Hendon was for para dropping. I think essentially the rear of the gondola was removed, so it was probably a very easy mod to a standard bomber. I haven't checked, but did the 189 have the necessary legs to get to Cambridgeshire?