Question for the chemists about acetone

[Beardie]

Hi all,

Occasionaly I have run into decals that misbehave and won't soften and settle down with any of my decal solutions. I have Humbrol Decalfix, Daco Medium and Strong and Micro set and sol. In extreme cases I have given a stubborn decal a swipe with a brush dipped in pure acetone. It has been a bit hit and miss as, if I hit it just right (Light and quick) the decal settles down beautifully but if I am too slow and have too much acetone the decal dissolve onto the brush and make a mess.

The question is:

Would diluting the acetone with water slow the solvent effect and make it more controllable or is there something more powerful than the above mentioned decal solutions but weaker than acetone?

[malpaso]

Some decal fix solutions are (or smell like) mild acetic acid. So presumably stronger acetic acid would work, guess dilution rate would need experiment.

You could try vinegar as that's dilute acetic acid, though possibly white rather than chip shop brown would be a good idea.

Good luck

Will

[malpaso]

I should have said, to be honest, I only got microsol/set last year and fairly underwhelmed. I have e been laying decals straight onto wet klear/future as it's worked perfectly. No silvering even on a squadron/roundels combo straight on Matt paint. Saves gloss coating.

Will

Edited August 25, 2016 by malpaso

[Milo Burgh]

For softening decals, you can use a mix of water, methanol and diethyl ether, proportions 1:1:1. Acetone will kill most decals. I am afraid that to get methanol and ether is not easy. Methanol is toxic, be careful. I use a lot of methanol at my job, but sadly, no ether...

Acetic acid is the component of Micro Set, for preparing the surface.

Edited:

diethyl ether, not methyl ether.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Milo Burgh

[Dave Fleming]

The question is:

Would diluting the acetone with water slow the solvent effect and make it more controllable or is there something more powerful than the above mentioned decal solutions but weaker than acetone?

It should do - most nailpolish removers are acetone solutions rather than pure acetone.

have you tried using Tamiya acrylic thinners (X20 IIRc)?

[sinnerboy]

Hi Marty

As Will says I was under the impression that decal softening solutions are acetic acid, you could try white vinegar, you could make your own strengths, boil for stronger dilute for weaker.

Note to self, must pickle my onions!

[Milo Burgh]

Hi Marty

As Will says I was under the impression that decal softening solutions are acetic acid, you could try white vinegar, you could make your own strengths, boil for stronger dilute for weaker.

Note to self, must pickle my onions!

Micro Set is acetic acid diluted.

[Denford]

It should do - most nailpolish removers are acetone solutions rather than pure acetone.

have you tried using Tamiya acrylic thinners (X20 IIRc)?

Not all are 'acetone solutions': some boast to being 'acetone free' as acetone can apparently leach out oils in nails making them brittle. Most use MEK (chemically very similar to acetone) or Isopropyl alcohol: these are slightly less volatile, so safer to work with. For those in UK, Superdrug have a good selection with ingredients shown on the back. All quite cheap and incidentally excellent for softening hardened bristle brushes, cleaning out airbrushes etc.

[Beardie]

I would like to steer clear of the 'nail polish removers' as I am guessing they probably have some form of conditioner or suchlike in them to stop the drying out of the fingernails that apparently happens with pure acetone. I was aware that the softeners contain acetic acid but I am not sure it would have the neccessary effect on really stubborn decals. I am guessing that, while the acetic acid 'softens' the decal the acetone actually dissolves it and turns it into acrylic soup. The biggest problem I think is the volatility of the acetone. If i could just slow down the reaction and make it more controllable I reckon it would be the ultimate decal setting solution virtually 'painting on' the decals.

[Greenshirt]

Try Tamiya's X-20A thinner. Sparingly, mind you.

We've a member who swears by it when Daco strong isn't. I've tried it, it sort of worked but the decal was already past help at that point.

Tim

[Tzulscha]

Can you Solvaset over on that side of the big water?

Probably not eh?

This stuff is about as aggressive as I'd ever care to use.

Not a chemist so I have no idea what methoxy-2-propanal is (although I 'spose I could google it...nah)

But it'll melt your decal into paint.

Most decal solvents seem to be mild acids as noted above with an alcohol base.

If you can't find something good try fiddling with vinegar or some other MILD acid.

White vinegar and gin?

Hmm, let me know how that one works out...

[Graeme H]

+1 for Solvaset, really works where others don't

here in Australia I get it from the Model Railroad people

[Beardie]

Interesting, apparently the chemical mentioned by Tzulscha as being the main component of this Solvaset stuff (doesn't seem to be available in the UK) is better known as Propylene Glycol and is often a constituent of anti-freeze as well as being used as the carrier/solvent in printing and writing inks. On the negative side it appears to have some health concerns and an ability to intoxicate. It is an 'ether' with similar properties to the one mentioned by Milo Burgh above and apparently the 'Ethers' all have similar properties.

According to evilbay it seems that you can get quite a lot of propylene glycol for very little money.