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AZ 1/72 Martin Baker MB5


Beard

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But did the Curtiss design have the internal radiator mounting that made the Mustang so good, or was it just a more traditional external or semi-external mounting? NAA engineers have made it quite clear that they were told by the USAAC that they had to buy the Curtiss data, but that it had no influence on the P-51 design.

Edited by Graham Boak
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I'm puzzled as to how could the USAAC demand anything? The Mustang was commissioned by the British to a British specification.

I've read various accounts over the years as to how much (or little) the Curtis data influenced the design.

Still, it was bought and there must have been something that was of use?

Trevor

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My ex-RAF ground radar-trained uncle reckons it's pronounced 'twats'. But he's old and very grumpy. Regardless of how it's pronounced, I think that it LOOKS silly.

I read somewhere that when initially named Qinetiq, or however you spell it, the staff would deliberately pronounce it kwinetik just to wind up the marketing wallers who came up with the stupid name.

Who knows, they might start calling real ale something ridiculous like, of I don't know... craft beer or something.

Edited for an attempt at levity.

Edited by Meatbox8
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As North American's prime customer, a possible buyer of this project, and having overall control of the export of US military aircraft to belligerents, the USAAC could demand what it liked. They'd paid money for studying advanced technology which they saw as for the benefit of all. That doesn't mean that it was free, or affected by the regrettable fact that the P-46 didn't actually turn out that advanced anyway.

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But did the Curtiss design have the internal radiator mounting that made the Mustang so good, or was it just a more traditional external or semi-external mounting? NAA engineers have made it quite clear that they were told by the USAAC that they had to buy the Curtiss data, but that it had no influence on the P-51 design.

Not sure which to 'Curtiss design' you are referring, nor the time scale, nor even if the Allison Mustangs used their internal radiators to offset 'radiator drag' for want of a better phrase.

What I have read was that NA were commissioned to build 600 (Allison) P-40's for Air Min/MAP, but said they could produce something better. Hence the famous 90 day deadline to produce their prototype and the rest, as they say, is history.

Clearly NA had been taking note of the European War and producing a design (or even designs) incorporating the lessons from it as well as latest technology, giving them a head start. Other manufacturers (worldwide) probably likewise: certainly Grumman with the F6F though this may have been, in part, a private venture as an F4F replacement. The oft repeated phrase that the F6F was developed 'in response to the Zero' is journalistic fantasy.

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Also found this.....

John Marlin of Reno, Nev., began working on a replica of the MB 5 in about 2001 and was putting it through taxi tests in July 2006. The aircraft used a P-51 Mustang wing and had other design changes to improve handling. The replica apparently never flew, and the project appears to have been in abeyance for the past several years.

It is, apparently, not very accurate.

Very 'diplomatically' put, Ken.

My first thoughts on seeing the Reno Replica were "slab-sided and short-nosed". It seems to show none of the grace of the original. Shame really, cos it would have been a real crowd pleaser at airshows.

Kev

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'Qin stupid name if you ask me.

If it's pronounced KINETIC, then spell it Kinetic.

Qen

There are people here who work for QinetiQ and I can confirm that there were mutterings amongst the staff about it being a <insert expletive of your choice> stupid name at the time it was announced. The management got rather heated about it all and accused us of all be 'Corporate Terrorists' which I suppose is a modern version of 'Luddite'. Its odd to think that many of those Corporate Terrorists still work for the company and have grown to like the name whilst the management have moved on.

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Wasn't the "Q" in the name Qinetiq a hint to James' Bond "Q", which supplies all the high-tech gadgets? That the name should be pronounced as "kinetic" was kind of obvious even to me, as non-native-english speaking person...

Alex

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You'd be surprised at how many native English speakers pronounce it "Quinteck".

I like to think I have some command of the language, and I've always called it "Kwee-neti-queue".

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My manager told me that QinetiQ was "absolutely the right name" for 'new DERA' as it was then known. I was unconvinced and took advantage of a better offer soon after.

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My manager told me that QinetiQ was "absolutely the right name" for 'new DERA' as it was then known. I was unconvinced and took advantage of a better offer soon after.

They had to do something about the DERA name especially as even the customers were saying "dearer by name, dearer by nature".

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I have the Silver Cloud MB5. I wouldn't be interested in whif schemes but I would love to find photographic or documentary evidence that and MB5 had its undersides painted in Medium Sea Grey instead of yellow.

This chromatic photo tells me they were yellow:

http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac6/Martin-Baker%20M.B.5.html

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Not so fast - although proof seems to be lacking, Micheal Bonello, in Modelaid International Magazine, March 1987, in describing several options available to the builder of the Skybirds 86 M.B.5 kit, says the following:

"Option 5 is tentative but most probably authentic. It has been reported in other publications that the underside colour was eventually changed to Medium Sea Grey. This is quite possible, since the M.B.5 was still airworthy late in 1947, well past its prototype trials. However, this change might also have brought about removal of the yellow 'P' and ring. Since we could find no photographic evidence to substantiate the latter, we hope one of our readers might throw more light on this point." Whether anyone confirmed Bonello's conjecture, I don't know.

Anyone building the AZ kit might be interested to know that the M.B.5's original configuration included the much different fin/rudder/stabilizers/elevators from the M.B.3 and a slightly different windscreen, so a conversion is possible - maybe I should have ordered two kits instead of just one... :undecided:

I assume someone will eventually describe this history in more detail, but during its tests, the M.B.5 had not only the previously-mentioned empennage revision, but also two different props, three different spinner colours (gloss black, polished aluminum, and matte black), and a revision in its roundel sizes to conform to a change in MoD standards - all kinds of possibilities - maybe I should have ordered 3 or 4 of them! :hmmm:

John

PS - One other comment - the instruction sheet for the Pegasus 1/72 M.B.5 says flat out that the undersides were MSG (in fact, no alternative is even mentioned); Chris Gannon credits a former member of the Martin-Baker design team for assistance in preparing the kit, so maybe he was the one who provided the paint details. This is not to dispute the yellow colour, which is proven photographically, but to provide some support for the possibility of the application of Medium Sea Grey later in the aircraft's life, as Bonello suggested.

Edited by John Thompson
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Not so fast - ...

... - maybe I should have ordered two kits instead of just one... :undecided:

... - maybe I should have ordered 3 or 4 of them! :hmmm:

heh heh heh... sounds a lot like you're talking yourself into a BULK purchase, John! :winkgrin:

I was sure that I'd seen a photo of an MSG underside MB.5 somewhere but I can't find any trace of it now (though I lost all my previous research [and kits] in 2013, and I know I had the Silver Cloud kit at that time).

Kev

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