Badger 105 or 155?

[Magua87]

I'm thinking about upgrading from my Iwata Revolution BCR. I upgraded the airbrush with a 0.3 mm nozzle and 0.35 mm needle (the 0.3 won't fit the triple action handle). The 0.35 mm is great for detailed work, but it doesn't give great coverage for base coats (see the patchy job below). Unfortunately it's a pain to swap out needles, nozzles, and the action on the handle when I want to paint a larger area.

I'm thinking about upgrading to an airbrush which is either easier to swap out needles and nozzles or which can reasonably manage detail and lay down a larger area of paint when needed. I was initially looking at the Badger 150, but I'm intrigued by the Badger 155 Anthem and the 105 Patriot. The 155 and 105 have a dual taper needle, allowing fine detailing and wider coverage. The 105 has a finer needle and nozzle than the 155, but it looks able to lay down a lot of paint when required (base coats, single colours, gloss coats, etc).

I was wondering if anyone here has any any experience with either or both and what your opinions are of the airbrushes? What are they like for fine, detailed work? Do they work well enough for larger areas or do you have another go-to brush for base coats, etc.

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/badger-patriot

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/badger-155-anthem

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/airbrush-comparison-chart

[Avgas]

I've got a few Badger brushes including the 105 and never use it. I bought it along with a Renegade Krome thinking I'll use the latter for detail work and the former for larger coverage. Nice enough brush but I find I use my Krome for just about everything. Fine enough for detail work and wide enough for one colour coats. I have a 150 for klear coats only but that's the only instance where I don't have the 'detail' brush in hand.

Not sure if that's any help. I suppose my point is that I've found a .2 and .3 combo brush along with a cheapo for klear adequate. In fact I don't think I've ever changed the needle from whichever was inserted when it arrived. In all honesty, the cheapo for clear coats isn't even a necessity imho!

http://www.badger-airbrush.co.uk/renegade-krome.html

Edited August 21, 2016 by Avgas

[little-cars]

Badgers do have their drawbacks, 105 is a suction feed and the 150 still has a large top cup which can get in the way when applying detail.

These days for your application we normally point people towards the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution Silverline 2in1.

Easy to clean, strip down & cheap to maintain when needed.

It has a 0.2ml nozzle set that paints down to about 1mm for detail, the internal 0.5ml or small 2ml paint cup can be used for this. As well as a 0.4mm nozzle set and 5ml paint cup for larger areas. It also has a preset handle to set the maximum paint flow.

http://www.modellingtools.co.uk/harder--steenbeck-evolution-silverline-2in1-airbrush--02mm-04mm-nozzle-sets-and-2ml-5ml-paint-cups-3708-p.asp

Swapping from one nozzle set to another takes about 20 seconds and you don't need any tools for this or to strip the brush down to it's component parts.

The manual will give you more of an idea of the construction & cleaning.....

http://www.harder-airbrush.eu/files/downloads/manuals/Evolution%20Manual.pdf

On flexibility for the future, you can add a 0.15mm nozzle set for ultrafine work and a 0.6mm nozzle set for very large area work. There is also a micro paint cup that covers the cup thread if you are doing a lot of detail work as well as 15ml, 50ml and side feed 15ml bottle options available.

We have a number of customers in your part of the words, so you may know someone that has one you can have a go with.

Paul

Edited August 21, 2016 by little-cars

[colin]

A .35 needle should give you a good coverage, not sure when matched to a .3 nozzle though.

Coverage with the model you show may not be due to the airbrush itself but how your using it, you may be too close when spraying, getting wetter areas than others

You want to spray metallics in light thin coats building up the coverage, sweeping across the area one way, then the opposite way, like a cross shape, don't stop the movement until your off the model.

Don't spray too far away from the model either as your likely to get a rough finish where the paint is drying before it hits the model.

You have got a nice smooth finish on the model now, you could try going back over with light coats as above to even it out, but don't be tempted to go heavy to get coverage, light coats and build up the layers

hth

[little-cars]

A .35 needle should give you a good coverage, not sure when matched to a .3 nozzle though.

Coverage with the model you show may not be due to the airbrush itself but how your using it, you may be too close when spraying, getting wetter areas than others

You want to spray metallics in light thin coats building up the coverage, sweeping across the area one way, then the opposite way, like a cross shape, don't stop the movement until your off the model.

Don't spray too far away from the model either as your likely to get a rough finish where the paint is drying before it hits the model.

You have got a nice smooth finish on the model now, you could try going back over with light coats as above to even it out, but don't be tempted to go heavy to get coverage, light coats and build up the layers

hth

Looks like the 0.3mm needles are shorter than the 0.5mm, so I assume the Eclipse 0.35mm neeedle is used instead.

Not sure which other parts were also changed, normal route would be; 0.3mm needle, nozzle, nozzle cap and needle cap.

Everything has an effect on the paint flow.

Paul

[Magua87]

Looks like the 0.3mm needles are shorter than the 0.5mm, so I assume the Eclipse 0.35mm neeedle is used instead.

Not sure which other parts were also changed, normal route would be; 0.3mm needle, nozzle, nozzle cap and needle cap.

Everything has an effect on the paint flow.

Paul

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234976552-iwata-triple-action-handle-issues/?fromsearch=1

Here's my thread on that issue. It is the eclipse needle with the 0.3 mm nozzle, nozzle cap, etc. I could go back to the 0.3mm needle, but I'd need to ditch the triple action handle.

Alternatively, I wonder if the eclipse nozzle, etc would fit my BCR? Edit. A quick google tells me no, it's a different assembly. So I either try again with the 0.35mm; ditch the triple action handle and try the 0.3mm; or buy a new airbrush which can offer more flexibility. Decisions!

Thanks for the info, guys. I might see if anyone I know has an H&S I could try.

Maybe I should change the focus of this thread. What would you recommend for broad applications if I could only afford a single brush? Eg something like the H&S brush with easily interchangeable needles and nozzles for both fine work and base coats.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Magua87

[Karl]

I've had the Anthem 155 for years and it has given me superb results every time. I can do super fine details and spray gun all with one needle and nozzle. The only major drawback is that its suction feed. However you do get a small side cup and this is the only one I ever use.

I am however now looking to get a 'good' gravity feed brush so I'll keep an eye on ths thread!

Karl

[Hotel Papa]

If you have the Iwata anyway, why not opt for a two-Brush setup? No need to fiddle with reconfigurations.

That being said, the H&S are mighty fine brushes. But be sure to get your hands on one for some fondling, test spraying and test maintenance. Not everyone likes the same gear.

[little-cars]

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234976552-iwata-triple-action-handle-issues/?fromsearch=1

Here's my thread on that issue. It is the eclipse needle with the 0.3 mm nozzle, nozzle cap, etc. I could go back to the 0.3mm needle, but I'd need to ditch the triple action handle.

Alternatively, I wonder if the eclipse nozzle, etc would fit my BCR? Edit. A quick google tells me no, it's a different assembly. So I either try again with the 0.35mm; ditch the triple action handle and try the 0.3mm; or buy a new airbrush which can offer more flexibility. Decisions!

Thanks for the info, guys. I might see if anyone I know has an H&S I could try.

Maybe I should change the focus of this thread. What would you recommend for broad applications if I could only afford a single brush? Eg something like the H&S brush with easily interchangeable needles and nozzles for both fine work and base coats.

There are a lot of different choices with H&S brushes.

The main question is how fine do you need to spray and what are the largest areas you are looking to cover and what is your current setup giving you?

Also, what features of the triple action handle are you using?

Paul

[MikeC]

I use an Iwata HP-CS for finer work to smallish base coats, and a Badger 155 Anthem for large areas. Like Karl, I only ever use the side cup. One thing I did purchase some years ago: a bayonet fitting. There's a female connector on the air hose, and a male connector on the brush, a different connector for each brand of brush. Connecting brush to hose is now a push-fit, and disconnecting a simple pull of a collar and remove the brush. Changeover: 2 seconds or perhaps less. I can't remember where I purchased it now, could well have been from Little-Cars (as Paul was then), but I did get my Iwata and current compressor from him.

I wouldn't consider changing either brush, they both work well for me, but your mileage may differ. Paul's suggestion above looks good.

[Magua87]

There are a lot of different choices with H&S brushes.

The main question is how fine do you need to spray and what are the largest areas you are looking to cover and what is your current setup giving you?

Also, what features of the triple action handle are you using?

Paul

I mainly work in 1/72. My smallest work would be a Luftwaffe mottle on a Bf109, the largest is the Vulcan which is stashed under the bed. Generally speaking, 1/72 fighters, both props and jets.

The revolution was a good introduction to modelling, but isn't flexible enough. As noted, the .35mm set up wasn't working for larger areas, but it will be the weekend before I can play with the various nozzles and some water or food colouring to see what coverage I can get with the standard 0.3 set up.

The triple action handle was good for ease of cleaning, but it's also good for fine(ish) work, such as pre-shading panel lines by setting the amount of paint required.

[little-cars]

I mainly work in 1/72. My smallest work would be a Luftwaffe mottle on a Bf109, the largest is the Vulcan which is stashed under the bed. Generally speaking, 1/72 fighters, both props and jets.

The revolution was a good introduction to modelling, but isn't flexible enough. As noted, the .35mm set up wasn't working for larger areas, but it will be the weekend before I can play with the various nozzles and some water or food colouring to see what coverage I can get with the standard 0.3 set up.

The triple action handle was good for ease of cleaning, but it's also good for fine(ish) work, such as pre-shading panel lines by setting the amount of paint required.

I think as I suspected in post #3, the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution 2in1 will be ideal for your application.

Fine nozzle set for details down to 1mm, high flow larger nozzle set and larger cup for area work..

http://www.modellingtools.co.uk/harder--steenbeck-evolution-silverline-2in1-airbrush--02mm-04mm-nozzle-sets-and-2ml-5ml-paint-cups-3708-p.asp

Has a preset handle to set maximum paint flow.

The only thing you may decided to add as an aftermarket add on is the 'infinity air cap'

If you get dry paint building up on the air cap, this will allow you to just pinch clean the tip and for fine detailing gives you a great view of the needle tip.

http://www.modellingtools.co.uk/air-cap-015-02-mm--infinity-126783-3486-p.asp

Paul

[Bordfunker]

I use a couple of Badger 100s, one with a Fine tip and needle, the other with a Medium.

The one with the Fine set up is a 100S has a small paint reservoir in the body, while the Medium is a G, with a large colour cup.

I frequently swap the head and needle assemblies between the two, so would suggest considering a 100, as although they are an older brush, they spray beautifully, despite the fact that both of mine are well over a decade old.

Karl

[helios16v]

Badgers do have their drawbacks, 105 is a suction feed and the 150 still has a large top cup which can get in the way when applying detail.

The 105 Patriot is not suction feed. It's a gravity fed, internal mix, dual-action brush.

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Patriot_105.asp

The 150 & 155 are both siphon (bottom) fed, internal mix, dual action brushes.

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Anthem_155.asp

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Badger_150.asp

Edited August 22, 2016 by helios16v

[little-cars]

The 105 Patriot is not suction feed. It's a gravity fed, internal mix, dual-action brush.

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Patriot_105.asp

The 150 & 155 are both siphon (bottom) fed, internal mix, dual action brushes.

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Anthem_155.asp

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Badger_150.asp

Apologies, got the model numbers the wrong way around.

Paul

[helios16v]

Apologies, got the model numbers the wrong way around.

Paul

No worries. Just trying to prevent confusion. You had me scratching my head for a moment though. I could've sworn my airbrush was a 105, and I know for a fact mine is a grav feed cup.

[little-cars]

No worries. Just trying to prevent confusion. You had me scratching my head for a moment though. I could've sworn my airbrush was a 105, and I know for a fact mine is a grav feed cup.

Sorry, it's been one of those weeks !

[Magua87]

I'm starting to wonder if I need a new airbrush. Achieved the squiggle below at about 12ish PSI with the triple action handle, 0.5mm nozzle. Looks like about a 1mm line.

Although I think a needle limiter would be more effective, especially for mottling.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Magua87

[Magua87]

Hi, gents. Thought I'd provide an update. I bought an Iwata HP-C+ for a good price through Amazon. It was a pretty tough decision, but I went with the Iwata as already owning one I figured the ergonomics would be similar. Not many people seem to stock professional airbrushes in NZ and I've never been able to try before buying.

My first impressions of the brush are very favourable. It's very nice to control. Seems like it should be able to lay down a reasonable amount of paint, so I may sell the BCR. Time will tell.