ZE419, a Sea King HAS5 that (temporarily) forgot how to fly

[Brandy]

3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 

Yep.  And 8.2 x square root of the type pressure in PSI = aquaplaning speed in the Bulldog.  Very, very useful for any pilot to know, particularly since he had no way of knowing what the tyre pressure was in the first place so couldn't work it out even in the highly unlikely event that he needed it.  Often used in pilot's notes quizzes by masochistic Beefers, though...  which is how I know it.

I was taught that one too. No-one could explain how to adjust it for tyre wear though and I can only assume that a worn tyre will aquaplane much sooner...

Therefore even more useless!

 

Ian

 

[hendie]

immaculate work Crisp.   You're forcing horrible thoughts into my head about any future 1/32 Wessex builds now.

 

 

In fact your work is so good, I'd almost let you work on a real one (with appropriate supervision though!)

[keefr22]

45 minutes ago, limeypilot said:

I was taught that one too.

 

 

Me too. And when I asked about the depth of standing water on the runway, and how does that affect it, no body had any idea on that either...!!

 

Keith

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Just to reassure those of you who seem to be concerned that I have completely disappeared into the Land of Bulldogs, it's time I brought you up to date.  I have been continuing to work on the Sea King between bits of Bulldog, but it has largely been those little tidying up jobs that matter lots to the final impact, and take lots of time - but really are not that thrilling to photograph or describe.  When you factor in that much of this tidying up was with our faithful HGW rivets, you might understand why I have been quiet for a bit.

 

However, having got the tail pylon to a point where it feels good, i thought it was high time I tried applying some RAF Blue Grey.  

 

When I started out, I said I was planning to use Hataka paint, since their RAF Blue Grey looks decent, but having tried it on my Fulmar paint mule - and even on a small section of Sea King, namely one of the engine bay doors, I now think it is too dark.  The real colour os dark, but has a definite tinge of blue to it (or so it feels to me - and after all, the clue is in the name), but Hataka's verges on the black in some light, and even in good light doesn't quite feel blue enough.

 

So out came one of those tools I absolutely love, namely iModelkit.  Having ascertained the BS number of the real RAF Blue Grey (BS633) and decided to revert to my fall-back paint of choice, namely Tamiya, I played around with various blacks, blues and greys, and eventually came up with my home brew version and ran it through iModelkit's paint match calculator.  iModelkit added one element I would never have tried, and it definitely made a subtle difference:

 

11 parts XF69 NATO Black

6 parts XF8 Flat Blue

3 parts XF75 IJN Grey (Kure Arsenal)

2 parts X14 Sky Blue

2 parts XF67 NATO Green - it's this final ingredient that I'd never have thought of.

 

It's hard to photograph, especially under artificial light with an iPhone, but I am really pleased with the result, and have mixed up enough to act as my base coat for the whole aircraft when the time comes.  I will then make up some variations - slightly lighter, slightly more blue, whatever - to give tonal variation.

 

OK, so you want to see it, don't you? 

 

Ta Dahhhh!

 

 

It looks very black in that picture, but it really isn't to the naked eye.  I will try one more picture:

 

That might give you a better idea.

 

No, you can't really see the rivets at this point, but trust me...  I have a plan.

 

More soon

 

Crisp

[MarkdipXV711]

Looking good..welcome back. I was having withdrawal symptoms! ! 👍

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

The plan (cunning or otherwise) is that a micromesh polish once the paint is properly dry will expose just enough of the rivets.  I don't want every one of them glaring out at you, but enough for you to get the fact that they are there - to my eyes that's how they look on the real thing.

 

And I am happy to say I think it works.  Still need to perfect the technique (and this is only after a very swift polish), but all this effort will not be wasted:

 

It's very hard to photo, as ever at this scale, but you get the general drift.

 

More soon

 

Crisp

Edited January 17, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[perdu]

That is not far off the colour my jar of RAF BG shows as when I shake it up

 

Gods bless Compucolour2

 

and I intend keeping a note of your recipe Crisp, it does look good

 

No Hakata for me then and all praise for your plan of great cunningness

[hendie]

Looks excellent. Have you tried polishing with a piece of paper kitchen towel ?

I'm not sure which grade of micromesh you used, but the paper towel may be worth trying

[perdu]

I'd try that soft cloth you get for cleaning shermooley off your reading glasses

 

Polishing without much definition

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I am trying 8000, 12000 and a polishing cloth from a Tamiya polishing compound kit.  The trick seems to be to take your time - you can see a couple of places where I was over-zealous in the early stages, but i am learning how it works.  Slow gentle polishing is the way ahead - and you must also polish all of it (i.e. even the bits where you know there are no rivets), so the finish looks uniform.  Interestingly, since the rivet process has left all sorts of tiny imperfections (little bits of glue residue etc) on the surface, this seems to be giving a subtle worn look to the surface as a whole.  I can't wait to see what it looks like on the main fuselage.

 

Still, I think this is going to work.

[keefr22]

14 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 The real colour os dark, but has a definite tinge of blue to it

 

I've always thought that too Crisp, to me it's always looked much bluer than 'normal' RAF blue grey - from my obviously much more limited exposure to them, I often thought they looked closer to Oxford blue in hue. I managed to find Modeldecal sheet 49 for RN Sea Kings last year, & in the notes Richard Ward states "overall scheme for earlier HAS 1's - semi gloss RAF blue-grey. On current machines the same colour is used, but gloss acrylic rather than previous epoxy paint, and with a different shade of undercoat now used the colour often appears more blue than before".As the notes appear to have been written shortly after the HAS 2 had entered service I'd say a bluey blue grey is definitely called for!

 

Keith 

[TheBaron]

I doubt that the camera is really doing the  paint/polish on that tail justice.

iModelkit is one of the few apps I've  found useful enough to buy outright.

Good to see this back!

Tony

[Pete in Lincs]

I recommend a bit of old T shirt.

It also adds a certain sheen to matt.

[AlexN]

3 hours ago, keefr22 said:

but gloss acrylic rather than previous epoxy paint

 

They used epoxy - without UV protection  (PU varnish) over the top? It would have weathered in a flash! Incomparable substance for wooden boat building, for example, but as a top coat for an hairyplane/wobblychopter (or anything else UV-exposed) ?  

 

Might have helped slighty with the waterproofing - maybe...

 

Tail looking fantastic . Droolicious! (Sorry!)

 

Cheers,

Alex.  <- wants a ride in the SK when she's finished .

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

16 hours ago, keefr22 said:

I've always thought that too Crisp, to me it's always looked much bluer than 'normal' RAF blue grey - from my obviously much more limited exposure to them, I often thought they looked closer to Oxford blue in hue. I managed to find Modeldecal sheet 49 for RN Sea Kings last year, & in the notes Richard Ward states "overall scheme for earlier HAS 1's - semi gloss RAF blue-grey. On current machines the same colour is used, but gloss acrylic rather than previous epoxy paint, and with a different shade of undercoat now used the colour often appears more blue than before".As the notes appear to have been written shortly after the HAS 2 had entered service I'd say a bluey blue grey is definitely called for!

 

Keith 

 

I am old enough to have been serving (though not yet flying) when the Lynx HAS 2 first came in.  They really were Oxford Blue, and there's a Mk 2 at Yeovilton (in the reserve collection) still in that colour; having seen it at the same time as the HAS5 which appears in so many of my reference photos, I can definitely confirm that Oxford Blue is considerably "more blue" to the naked eye.  

Edit: Oxford Blue:

 

RAF BG:

 

The memory plays funny tricks, and in the end you have to opt for a shade that looks right to you.  For that reason i have never really got the obsession with RLM paint chips and the like; there are so many variables - state o aircraft skin when paint was applied, what colour primer there was under it, atmospheric conditions during and after application, and then of course wear in service, that knowing the exact shade of the original paint and obsessively matching your model paint to it seems rather pointless to me... and that's before you start going into an consideration of "scale effect".

 

Anyway (better put the lid back on that particular can of worms!), I think I might have stumbled on something - ironically, at about the same time as @Fritag did on his stellar Hawks thread.  The polishing system works well, but it also emphasises every single blemish on the aircraft skin and, though the tail pylon is largely blemish free, I know that the main fuselage is not.  So I have been experimenting with getting the skin smooth as possible as well as polishing purely for rivet exposure purposes.  This has almost inevitably dislodged a few rivets, so I replaced them ON TOP of the base layer of RAF Blue Grey... and not a single rivet fell away with the backing transfer removal.  As you know from my early endless shots of it, that was by no means the case on a layer of Tamiya white primer, whether micro-meshed or not.

 

So I am continuing to experiment, which might explain the relative lack of apparent progress (though see also Bulldogs).  After all, the whole point of this riveting exercise is to get the Sea King looking "right" in my eyes (see paint discussion above).

 

This is what the pylon looks like this morning.  Later, once everything is dry, I plan to mist a very thin layer of RAF Blue Grey [henceforth, RAF BG] on top to deaden down the raw silver.

 

 

Gradually, by trial and error, I think I am crawling towards a solution that will work - or at least will give the effect I have in my mind's eye.  I am certain it can be done, and personally i think it is worth the effort for a Sea King, because the rivets are such an integral part of that particular aircraft's look.  I certainly do NOT plan to do this for every aircraft I build in future!

 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, really; let's face it, we all know that the key to a convincing finish is as much preparation as possible to give the paint the best base to which to adhere - so why is it a surprise that the answer to getting this right is time and a lot of work preparing, polishing and so on?

 

More later.

 

Crisp

Edited January 19, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU
Typos

[perdu]

You've certainly made the pylon look right, a thin mist over that is going to make it superb

 

I wish you'd kept schtumm about all that surface prep though, I'm going to feel really awful for not doing the same to my Wessex resurrection

 

It really is what the job needs though, lovely work Crisp

[keefr22]

19 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 

I am old enough to have been serving (though not yet flying) when the Lynx HAS 2 first came in.  They really were Oxford Blue, and there's a Mk 2 at Yeovilton (in the reserve collection) still in that colour; having seen it at the same time as the HAS5 which appears in so many of my reference photos, I can definitely confirm that Oxford Blue is considerably "more blue" to the naked eye.  

 

The memory plays funny tricks, and in the end you have to opt for a shade that looks right to you.  For that reason i have never really got the obsession with RLM paint chips and the like; there are so many variables - state o aircraft skin when paint was applied, what colour primer there was under it, atmospheric conditions during and after application, and then of course wear in service, that knowing the exact shade of the original paint and obsessively matching your model paint to it seems rather pointless to me... and that's before you start going into an consideration of "scale effect".

 

Morning Crisp, 

 

I completely, 110%, agree with that! It's exactly the same as my 'colour theory philosophy'! (which was brought home to me when I wasn't even actively modelling, when during IOT we had a trip out to Coningsby. Wandering around 228 OCU's dispersal, where there sat a dozen or more mighty Tooms, some still in grey/green, others in the new greys, it was obvious that no two aircraft were the same colour - even some of the, only a couple of months since repaint, grey jets!) My comment on the Oxford Blue was clumsily trying to say that I tended to see the SK colour as being more to the blue end of the spectrum than the grey one! I think...!

 

That pylon is looking seriously good! You've put so much work into the rivetting, it's really good to see such cracking results at the end of it!

 

Keith

[keefr22]

11 hours ago, AlexN said:

 

They used epoxy - without UV protection  (PU varnish) over the top? It would have weathered in a flash! Incomparable substance for wooden boat building, for example, but as a top coat for an hairyplane/wobblychopter (or anything else UV-exposed) ?  

 

Dunno Alex, I just repeated verbatim what Mr. Ward wrote, which to me vindicated my thinking that the SK colour looked more blue than grey. I'm easily led...!

 

Keith

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Oh, and there is another reason why progress might appear to have been slow: I have also been restoring the first (I think) build I ever did on here, namely the Gazelle in which I did my first rotary-wing solo.  This model (the Fujimi 1/48-ish one, with Model Alliance transfers) was very close to completion several years ago when it had a very unfortunate encounter with an over-excited Sporting Lucas Terrier called Zebedee.  The result was complete loss of starboard skid and starboard horizontal stabiliser (as in ingested by said Terrier, bless him) plus major damage to the main rotor and canopy.  For a while I thought it was irrecoverable, but since 1/48 Gazelles are not exactly two-a-penny, I've had it gathering dust on a corner of my workbench ever since - I just didn't have the heart to ditch it altogether after all that work.

 

It is so long ago that I can't even find the WIP thread, but I do remember there were some ups and downs - another major tail-sitter, I seem to recall.  However, progress with restoration is now sufficiently advanced for it to be unveiled: the new (completely scratch-built) starboard skid is installed, and she stands on her own two legs once more.  The canopy has also had more polishing than is strictly good for it, so is restored to something like transparency, and been re-installed.

 

A model Gazelle, yesterday:

 

And again; note total loss of pitot tubes, ADF aerials under nose, some of spine control rods, et al.  And, knowing what I know now, what could I do with those rivets!!?  Still, I think she will be displayable again soon.  

 

The main rotor head has been strengthen and re-painted, too.  Now it just needs re-installing once I have re-built the tail.

 

Zebedee, at Christmas - looking, it has to be said, not very contrite:

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[perdu]

Doesn't look very sorry does he?

Except the obligatory 'sorry for himself' look associated with any dog who is STILL waiting for a walk...

 

I do like the Gazzle Crisp, always a very elegant aeroplane which must even have the fixed-wingers agreeing with me for a change

 

Nice

[hendie]

WOW

that tail pylon just looks incredible. I sit here as impressed as an imp that's been pressed between two hard flat things.  Seriously good modeling and worth every bit of effort you've put into it - and then some!

 

I assume you are going to get a very special display case for this one ?

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

7 minutes ago, hendie said:

WOW

that tail pylon just looks incredible. I sit here as impressed as an imp that's been pressed between two hard flat things.  Seriously good modeling and worth every bit of effort you've put into it - and then some!

 

I assume you are going to get a very special display case for this one ?

 

Yes, though it has yet to be procured; still, at my current rate of build I just about still have time!

 

Is that Imp Hillman or Lincoln?

Edited January 19, 2017 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Martian]

It will be nice to see the Gazelle restored.

 

Martian 

[bzn20]

That Pylon is ace. Torque box ,rivets, grills, Trans cover and the rest are perfect, its almost real. Taken me back 20 years every time I see your results , few things I forgot about too.

Edited January 19, 2017 by bzn20

[AlexN]

Gorgeous Lynx - coming back a treat!

 

Flying question re the Lynx - did you ever notice (after the fact) if the fenestron had any noticeable effect on the tail rotor. Probably impossible to campare wirhout a fenestron-less Lynx, but curious (I have a thing for fenestron-adorned wobblychopters, a lot of them in the stash - studded with rivets! - and some even under construction).

 

Love the Bulldogs, too .

 

A.

Edited January 20, 2017 by AlexN
Correcting an egregious typo!